War vs. Iraq - Ousting Saddam?

[Ecthy]

I'm for a Kurdish nation and state.... if they behave

[kolpo]

Originally posted by Dalgetti
turkey.

It think it is not that sure or they will allow it. Especial since the Israeli operation has Turkey moved towards a more pro arab stance. Also the improving relations between Turkey and Greece means that Turkey doesn't needs there military cooperation with the US and Israel that much as it did in the past.

The Turkish economy isn't already doing very well, worsening relationsships with there arab friends wouldn't help there economy at all, it could even lead to economic embargo's.

In my view will turkey only help if they can gain a lot for themself, Like a part of Iraq.

[David Floyd]

since there is no Iraqi nation, but rather simply an iraqi state, this could be done. Turkey could also contribute a small parcel of land.

No. Both Turkey and Iraq are sovereign states - we have no business taking land from either of them, or the moral authority.

[mactbone]

David, how does morality fit into this at all? Why does every action a state takes supposed to be moral?

[Az]

blah, David, you know that your moral authority doesn't matter. We're talking RealPolitik. the thing that does.



and turkey will gain.
It won't have as much trouble with the kurds, for example.
also , with the renewed flaw of oil from Iraq that will , surely , have to pass through turkey , when the dust settles down , the turkish economy has much to gain from such a developement.

The turkish leadership is imo pro-Israeli. even the street is pretty neutral in the cities.
There is an Israel captain in one of the top turkish football teams. I don't think there is a major problem , except with muslim fundies.

[David Floyd]

Morals and right and wrong always matter.

[mactbone]

OK... and you live in a world with clear right and wrong...

...as decided by you

[David Floyd]

As decided by natural rights and principles of non-coercion.

[Kropotkin]

Originally posted by Dalgetti
with the renewed flaw of oil from Iraq that will , surely , have to pass through turkey

Iraq do have a coastline...

[Kropotkin]

on morality: In conclution; David argues that the US doesn't have the moral right to give away land owned by a sovreigen country but all the rights in the world to invade them, destroy their buildnings, burn their crops and kill them.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Kropotkin
on morality: In conclution; David argues that the US doesn't have the moral right to give away land owned by a sovreigen country but all the rights in the world to invade them, destroy their buildnings, burn their crops and kill them.

David is against the invasion of Iraq.

[Kropotkin]

Notice the

[David Floyd]

Indeed - I oppose virtually every war we've ever fought

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by David Floyd
Indeed - I oppose virtually every war we've ever fought

Which one's do you support?

[Oldenbarnevelt]

Before starting Desert Storm II, the American government will have some explaining to do. The fact that Iraq is an ugly dictatorship is hardly reason enough to mount a massive attack. I can see two valid reasons to oust Saddam:
1) Iraq supports al-Qaeda on the same scale as the Taleban did;
2) Iraq has weapons of mass destruction, or is about to get them.
So far I haven't seen proof of either. Before George W goes ahead with his new war, he should disclose parts of the intelligence he has (intelligence as in CIA, not as in IQ ) and present ample evidence to the American people and America's allies.

2) seems very likely, 1) seems less likely, considering Saddam is a secular leader, not an Islamist.