'dark side' of homosexual culture

[MrFun]

Originally posted by monolith94
Am I the only one who is going to point out that it is wrong for both heterosexuals and homosexuals to commit pedophelia, no matter in what numbers???

The numbers are irrelevant, the ultimate purpose is the same: we have to make our society into one that treats kids like kids - not sex toys.

If you have read older posts on the topic of pedophilia and child pornography, you will see that I am consistently opposed to legalization of pedophilia.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by monolith94
Am I the only one who is going to point out that it is wrong for both heterosexuals and homosexuals to commit pedophelia, no matter in what numbers???

The numbers are irrelevant, the ultimate purpose is the same: we have to make our society into one that treats kids like kids - not sex toys.

Nobody is here claiming pedophilia is appropriate or right. That argument is actually irrelevant.

The issue is antigay groups using dubious, misinterpreted and downright false statistics to imply that all gays are inherent child molesters, thus justifying their hatred of homosexuals and continued denial of equal rights for gays and lesbians.

Look no further than the Florida gay adoption case for an example.

[monolith94]

BAH - I'm just a soul who's intentions are good: my lord, please don't let me be misunderstood!

[blackice]

The issue is antigay groups using dubious, misinterpreted and downright false statistics to imply that all gays are inherent child molesters, thus justifying their hatred of homosexuals and continued denial of equal rights for gays and lesbians.

You seem to know what you are talking about do you have any links for your information?

That is what you seem to believe with homosexuals,

MrFun
First I never implied I believe it you have. Second the black issue is a whole different ball of wax somewhat like comparing apples and oranges here. The issue with me in this matter be it gays or straight people is abuse to young males. I think both these sites and many more point to the facts that the real numbers are not known. This means to me anyway that a true picture of the problem needs to be addressed.

Now these controversial articles (both of them) point to an area to be addressed. If someone could point me in the right direction with statistics or facts to make clear these articles are BS please do so. So far all I see is opinions and bashing. I am genuinely interested in this subject be it gay based information or not. But please do not say: “You believe” ask, I am sure of what I believe and what you have said it is not…

you will find it is prevalent among heterosexuals as well.

That is a given but statistics do matter very much so.

You can never rightly apply criminal behavior to an entire minority group.

Nope you can not I do not, never have and speak out about it often.

Guynemer

honestly, is male rape as ignored as he suggests? I certainly don't think so I'm sorry...

Blackice

back up your claim that male rape is reported on an equal basis to that of female rape...good luck.

Guynemer

could you quote me where I claimed that male rape is as equally reported as female rape?

Speaking of an arse ok your simple I will help…You claim male rape is not ignored as much as these articles and others claim (reported young male rape to be exact). Show me where you got this information I would like to see it. Good luck and thank you…

Sexual abuse of male children and adolescents is common, under-reported, under-recognized and under-treated, according to an article in the December 2 issue of The Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA).

http://www.ama-assn.org/sci-pubs/sci-news/1998/snr1202.htm#jrv80046

"Statistics" such as those are not reliable.

poison_flower could you point me to the site, information to confirm what you say? Some of the information sources used are very credible sources. North American Man and Boy Love Association reference is dead on the mark they are self described gay pedophiles and what the article quotes is fact…

The Emperor Fabulous so would I, do you have a link?

I don’t know Boris but I am asking the same thing with hopes someone has those answers…

I am consistently opposed to legalization of pedophilia.

We all are and to eliminate it we need to understand it all the facts including the statistics.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by blackice

That is what you seem to believe with homosexuals,

MrFun
First I never implied I believe it you have. Second the black issue is a whole different ball of wax somewhat like comparing apples and oranges here. The issue with me in this matter be it gays or straight people is abuse to young males. I think both these sites and many more point to the facts that the real numbers are not known. This means to me anyway that a true picture of the problem needs to be addressed.

I disagree --- when talking about the dynamics of how the majority group treats and interacts with different minority groups, you can compare two different minority groups in that aspect.

But, as long as you're not treating homosexuality synomously with pedophilia, then I was mistaken about your perception.

[Sikander]

Originally posted by Tingkai
But blackice, the quote you posted states: "About a third of those who offend against children target boys."

That suggests that girls are targeted by two-thirds of child abusers.

That implies that more girls are abused than boys

This implication only holds true if you assume that people who molest boys and girls do so in equivalent numbers. The studies BIG FINDING was that this wasn't the case. They then went on to weaken their evidence (or at least the guy who wrote the article did so) by making too much of it to the point of being misleading. BTW, I agree that this whole thing seems to be mean-spirited and hijacked for partisan purposes, but the logic hole is not on this particular issue.

[Sikander]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
Not even one-third. As I stated above, the vast majority of child abuse even against boys by men is committed by heterosexual men.

Seems weird, until one realizes: paedophilia isn't about sex as much as it is about power and control.

I strongly suspect the percentage of child abusers who are gay is the same percentage of the population at large who are gay--from 4-7 percent.

I agreed with most of your post above this one, but I think you are wandering beyond your knowledge a bit here, or at least across the limitations of our terminology. The term homosexual is regularly misused, to the extent that it should really be discarded for terms which are not defined in different ways by different people. Obviously to some people, including those behind this particular article anyone who engages in a sex act with someone of the same sex is a 'homosexual'. It's like a crime, like a murderer is a murderer forever. Thus they can pull crap like taking this definition of homosexuality, applying it to sex crimes, and then use a more moderate definition of homosexual (like the estimate that 5% of the population is gay) and come up with an outlandish number with which to paint homosexuals as the spawn of Satan. All that is really happening of course is that the cultural disconnect between these opposing groups is magnifying whatever data are being employed in the direction desired by the interest group.

Of course the same thing happens to some extent when 'the other side' uses statistics. Homosexuals benefit from being perceived to be numerous (politically especially), and are not always upset to be over-represented in population estimates. To some of them it seems as though everyone is either gay, or in denial. There are a wide variety of wild claims on both sides, and the casualty is the truth on the one hand, and an inability to define our terms in order to actually have a conversation about this issue as a society. Neither group is serving society well because they are both claiming the middle when neither really has a firm foothold there.

Anyway, when you say a majority of child abuse is commited by heterosexual men, these men by varying definitions can be considered either heterosexual, homosexual, or bisexual all depending on the definition one uses of these terms.

The term pedophilia can mean different things. To me it's a mental disorder. To someone else it's the crime of engaging in sexual activity with a child. So when you state that pedophilia is about power I object if you are talking about the mental disorder. People who suffer from this disorder are not mostly married, and cannot form successful sexual relationships with adults because they are arrested in their own development to the extent that only children stimulate them sexually. This is a fairly rare disorder, but it's very hard to treat successfully. These people should probably be locked up very tightly and closely supervised if they are released.

Most cases of child sexual abuse do not fit that psychological pattern (true pedophile) however. Most are as you say about power, and a better term for the people who commit this crime is child molester rather than pedophile. So perhaps I am in complete agreement with your points, but with the state of the terminology, I can't tell for sure.

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
I strongly suspect the percentage of child abusers who are gay is the same percentage of the population at large who are gay--from 4-7 percent.

Since we are speculating here, I will just say that I have every reason to believe the opposite. To the limited extent that we have good data on straights and gays it is the exception rather than the rule that these data show gays and straights to be statistically identical. I would further state that being victimized sexually as a child is a prime risk factor for becoming an abuser, and it is my sincere belief that more homosexuals (and by this term here I mean people who identify themselves as Gays or Lesbians in whatever polls might be used to extract this information) have been sexually abused as children. Because in my experience many of these sexually abused homosexuals are women (and thus unlikely to abuse children sexually), I can't say for sure whether a truer accounting than that supplied in the article would attribute more or less child abuse to self-proclaimed homosexuals. My feeling though is that it is far more likely to be either more, or less than it is to be equivalent.

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Sikander


This implication only holds true if you assume that people who molest boys and girls do so in equivalent numbers.

I agree and that's why I used the terms "implies" and "suggests."

There is a great irony in this thread. Blackice started the thread as part of his fanatical attempts to promote his belief that men are victims, men are oppressed.

The irony is that in order to promote his belief, he demonizes homosexuals and ends up victimising men who like men.

[blackice]

Tingkai you are quite a dolt You claim I started the thread for a reason that is simply untrue and of your own mental design. More BS from an obvious master of BS.

I started the thread because I felt it was at best controversial and pointed to male abuse as being very much unstudied. That I have made very clear several times in this thread.

The only irony here is your feeble continued attempts to discredit reality with your own unproven made up fantasies. You wander around giving opinions to a subject you know nothing about and claim to be knowledgeable.

You make claims yet provide zero evidence to back it up none what so ever. As with your above post you dream up comments which have no basis in fact and claim it to be real. It does not bother me at all I like the fact you continue to post your ignorance. It reinforces my belief you are immature and self-proclaimed hero in your own mind.

Here is another example of the now called "Shout at your spouse and lose your house" DVA of Ontario Canada...

Now Taki PROVE men/boys are not abused as much or even more...You won't, you can't, you will just continue to hijack threads, spam, post non sense, and grin at your own stupidity...Tell me Taki are you a hard core feminist's? You sure are starting to read like one....

[blackice]

On another note "Adult Interdependent Relationships Act" You can find it here http://www.assembly.ab.ca/

Alberta has done a good job with this so far. I do not often have good to say about King Ralph but this deserves a thumbs up!

Far cry from fighting same sex marrage to this, must have been Doris Day...