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**notyoueither** · April 28, 2002, 23:04

Sikander just about hit the nail on the head.

It can be incredibly frustrating for end users who rely on their computers to do useful things when the demon box goes boom. I can't fault them for not knowing everything about how to make it go again. All I ask them is that they not take the frustration out on me.

**Alexander's Horse** · April 28, 2002, 23:09

Originally posted by Asher

AH, when the problem is what you had: it is most certainly not something to waste your time calling support on. It is one of the classic PEBKAC cases.

It is not PEBKAP if I checked the Help files, tried every key, settings, control panel, right clicking, you name it - the help files were useless - that is my point

**Asher** · April 28, 2002, 23:11

Well in Windows XP, it took me all of 10 seconds to find the helpfile.

Start -> Help and Support
Type in "taskbar position"
Click the first result, "Lock the taskbar into position"
It says:

To lock the taskbar into position

**Alexander's Horse** · April 28, 2002, 23:24

My point precisely - where does it say in that explanation vertical or horizontal? Move to top or bottom of the page? Move from side to bottom or top? Try finding that passage using keywords. It also assumes you know that bar is called a "task bar", as opposed to a "menu bar" or something else. Very badly drafted help instructions right there. Thank you for making my point.

**Asher** · April 28, 2002, 23:27

Jesus Christ. You work for the government?

The menu bar is at the top of the screen, the one that says File and whatnot. The task bar is at the very bottom. Maybe you should buy one of those "Introduction to Windows" books or take the "Tour Windows XP" thing when you start it up. The only reason you don't know those terms is your own laziness. I bet you skipped all the tours and haven't actually read an introduction book...

It's like complaining cars are too hard to use since the manual doesn't tell you to turn the wheel left to turn left, etc.

Do you know how many hundreds of thousands of pages the Windows documenation would be if you had your way? It'd be so verbose people would find it a waste of their time.

**Alexander's Horse** · April 28, 2002, 23:30

The other point you are proving in spades is that geeks like you, who are the kind of people who write these useless manuals, do not understand or have any patience for user requirements. No wonder the help files are crap.

**Asher** · April 28, 2002, 23:33

You are very mistaken if you think geeks like me write user documentation.

Everyone knows interns writes the documentation.

The Windows helpfiles are there and easy to use and comprehensive providing you know the basics already. They simply cannot alias "taskbar position" to "menubar position" "that blue thinige position" "the start thingie position" "the thing with the clock's position" etc. That's simply absurd. It was named the taskbar, as the Windows tour will tell you as will ANY introductary book (which you should obviously invest in). You wanted to change the taskbar position. What do you search for? Taskbar position.

You want millions of pages of documentation and something so verbose it would annoy the hell out of the majority of users to the point of being useless.

Buy a damn book if you need more information. They DO sell those, you know. Or find websites with tutorials.

**Alexander's Horse** · April 28, 2002, 23:39

Thank you Mr ever cheerful help desk staff

**Asher** · April 28, 2002, 23:42

Perhaps you can start complaining that your keyboard didn't come with enough documentation to tell you which key to press to get which letter.

**Alexander's Horse** · April 29, 2002, 00:23

**Asher** · April 29, 2002, 00:25

We should also provide diagrams to show which mouse button we mean when we say "left mouse button".

As you can see, AH, there's no reasonable place to draw the line on details.

You're just pissed off because you couldn't figure out one of the most basic things in Windows.

To change where something is, you left-click on it and drag it around...

**Urban Ranger** · April 29, 2002, 00:30

Originally posted by Asher
UR, are you really that dense?
You CLICK on the taskbar and DRAG it to where you want to go. It simply cannot get much easier than that.

So how is this an "easy to use" myth?

Are you so pathetic that you troll over the stupidest things now?

Did you see Exhibit A? Of course not.

Did your average user found it easy to do some of the simplest tasks? If not, how can Windows be "easy to use?"

**Alexander's Horse** · April 29, 2002, 00:32

Asher's help manual would be one line:

"If you don't know how to use this product its YOUR FAULT."

**Asher** · April 29, 2002, 00:33

Windows will be hard to use for the mentally retarded too, doesn't change the fact that it IS easy to use for most people.

**Urban Ranger** · April 29, 2002, 00:33

Originally posted by Sikander
The problem isn't with the user, it's with the entire idea that a computer can perform even a tiny percentage of it's possible functionality while protecting the user from having to deal with complexity.

That pretty much sums up the problem with this approach.

A computer is a much more complicated device than a car, yet drivers have to go through a learning process before they are allowed to drive by themselves.

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I hate it when your comp settings change and you can't change it back

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