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The Problems with a Minimum Wage (Economics 101)

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  • The Problems with a Minimum Wage (Economics 101)

    Contention: Minimum wage laws, while benevolent to some extent, if altered positively, will only serve to harm the economic improvement of an area and the people living there.


    The issue of minimum wage laws came into being in the late 19th century when the common people of the industrialized world were working in atrocious conditions for next to no pay and, due to the fact that unions were illegal, did not have the ability in any way to control the selling cost of their product: labour. Because of these problems, the governments of a number of industrial countries, fearing a marxist revolt, enacted minimum wage laws to guarentee a fair wage for workers.

    With the continuation of capitalism, however, and the gradual advancement of even the poor in these nations, not to mention the power of organized labour, minimum wages became less of an issue. Nevertheless, minimum wages rose and rose through the decades.

    There are numerous problems with minimum wage laws, however. Ignoring the obvious fact that with their nearly monopolistic power, organized labour usually can sell labour at whatever cost, and that such laws are only more involvement of the gov't in private business, there are other problems caused by rampantly increasing minimum wages.

    Chief among them is the deteriation of competitive capitalism. Capitalism requires competition but, in a modern industrialist state, establish big business, with their vast resources and capital, have notable advantages over a fledgling entrepreneur. Rockefeller was known for driving down oil prices to wipe out competition. With his vast resources, he could afford to take a loss that the entrepreneur could not.

    Similiarily, big business is far more capable of weathering high minimum wage laws. A small business, with its limited initial resources, would be incapable of paying its workers the mandated wage and still having competitive prices. Small businesses would be forced to raise their prices, making their downfall certain. Established businesses may take losses to stay competitive, eventually destroying the small business, which must either fire its workers (reducing production) or increase prices. Further entrenched, the big business may now raise prices to make up for the increase in wages, resulting in the obvious increase of wages equates to an increase in the cost of living, completely nullifying the entire basis of a minimum wage law.


    thanks

    (there you go... some old time Albert Speer for yall who thought I was now just rambling about a vengeful God)
    "Flutie was better than Kelly, Elway, Esiason and Cunningham." - Ben Kenobi
    "I have nothing against Wilson, but he's nowhere near the same calibre of QB as Flutie. Flutie threw for 5k+ yards in the CFL." -Ben Kenobi

  • #2
    I would say that the minimum wage law over here has worked well. So you really don't know what you are on about.
    Speaking of Erith:

    "It's not twinned with anywhere, but it does have a suicide pact with Dagenham" - Linda Smith

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    • #3
      Well, yes there are problems with the minimum wage law, Speery. It prevents a true equilibrium in the labor market and thus creates excess demand, which in turn causes unemployment. However, if we were allowed to remove the minimum wage, everyone (more or less) would have a job. The competition among firms for workers after that would benefit workers immensely, but at HUGE costs to the firms. Many would probably be wiped out by preditory competition. The big firms would be able to totally outspend other firms for talent and thus having the better talent would be able to win the competition.
      “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
      - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

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      • #4
        oops
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        • #5
          Imran:

          I do not favour the complete removal of the minimum wage, but rather a limited one, though my reasons for its staying are more of a humanitarian concern than the competition concerns you described. Excessive increasing of the minimum wage, however, espoused by leftists, will only result in an economic decline and be of no consequential help to the worker.


          thanks
          "Flutie was better than Kelly, Elway, Esiason and Cunningham." - Ben Kenobi
          "I have nothing against Wilson, but he's nowhere near the same calibre of QB as Flutie. Flutie threw for 5k+ yards in the CFL." -Ben Kenobi

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          • #6
            And I find it ironic that a removal of the minimum wage or its excessive increasing will both result in essentially the same rise in business costs and destruction of small competition. Is our only hope a moderate course?
            "Flutie was better than Kelly, Elway, Esiason and Cunningham." - Ben Kenobi
            "I have nothing against Wilson, but he's nowhere near the same calibre of QB as Flutie. Flutie threw for 5k+ yards in the CFL." -Ben Kenobi

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            • #7
              You say minimum wage might be a problem to the companies, but you should remember that there are several countries whose minimum wage is below 350$ (like in Portugal, for example, almost 350€).
              "BANANA POWAAAAH!!! (exclamation Zopperoni style)" - Mercator, in the OT 'What fruit are you?' thread
              Join the Civ2 Democratic Game! We have a banana option in every poll just for you to vote for!
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              • #8
                The minimum wage, to a point, does protect workers. However, it is high now, and should not be further increased. As Imran said, it creates more unemployment and in this age creates a desire to switch from costly human labor to cheaper mechanical labor, creating even more unemployment for unskilled workers.
                "Chegitz, still angry about the fall of the Soviet Union in 1991?
                You provide no source. You PROVIDE NOTHING! And yet you want to destroy capitalism.. you criminal..." - Fez

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                • #9
                  $350 a week? Divide that by 40 hours and that is $8.75 an hour.

                  In the US, the minimum wage is ~ $6 an hour.
                  “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                  - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

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                  • #10
                    It's clear that when there is welfare, there must be minimum wage- if you make less working than not working, you clearly won't work.

                    Why must there be welfare? So that you won't end up with people on the streets during a recession.

                    Therefore there must be a minimum wage.
                    I refute it thus!
                    "Destiny! Destiny! No escaping that for me!"

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Goingonit
                      Why must there be welfare? So that you won't end up with people on the streets during a recession.

                      Therefore there must be a minimum wage.
                      uh, recessions become depressions when businesses go out of business when they can't afford to pay employees. That'll create even more people 'on the streeet'
                      "Chegitz, still angry about the fall of the Soviet Union in 1991?
                      You provide no source. You PROVIDE NOTHING! And yet you want to destroy capitalism.. you criminal..." - Fez

                      "I was hoping for a Communist utopia that would last forever." - Imran Siddiqui

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
                        $350 a week? Divide that by 40 hours and that is $8.75 an hour.

                        In the US, the minimum wage is ~ $6 an hour.


                        NO IMRAN, <350$ A MONTH!

                        (In Europe the wages are paid monthly)
                        "BANANA POWAAAAH!!! (exclamation Zopperoni style)" - Mercator, in the OT 'What fruit are you?' thread
                        Join the Civ2 Democratic Game! We have a banana option in every poll just for you to vote for!
                        Many thanks to Zealot for wasting his time on the jobs section at Gamasutra - MarkG in the article SMAC2 IN FULL 3D? http://apolyton.net/misc/
                        Always thought settlers looked like Viking helmets. Took me a while to spot they were supposed to be wagons. - The pirate about Settlers in Civ 1

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                        • #13
                          Goingonit:

                          It's clear that when there is welfare, there must be minimum wage- if you make less working than not working, you clearly won't work.
                          Ever heard of a union? Unions exist similiar to businesses. Just as businesses sell a product, workers sell their product known as labour to businesses. Yes, in times of high availibility of workers, the demand for labour is less and the cost of labour is low, but unions exist as monopolies of labour. Unions control the labour demand and thus the cost of labour, causing minimum wage laws to be irrelevent in most cases.


                          thanks
                          "Flutie was better than Kelly, Elway, Esiason and Cunningham." - Ben Kenobi
                          "I have nothing against Wilson, but he's nowhere near the same calibre of QB as Flutie. Flutie threw for 5k+ yards in the CFL." -Ben Kenobi

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Zealot


                            NO IMRAN, <350$ A MONTH!

                            (In Europe the wages are paid monthly)
                            Ahhh... you don't have to roll your eyes at me .

                            In the US most wages are paid bi-monthly or weekly.
                            “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                            - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
                              Ahhh... you don't have to roll your eyes at me .
                              Now you know what the or else part in the Don't mess with me or else... sentence means!

                              Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
                              In the US most wages are paid bi-monthly or weekly.
                              I know, but I forgot that you might not know how's the European wage system.
                              "BANANA POWAAAAH!!! (exclamation Zopperoni style)" - Mercator, in the OT 'What fruit are you?' thread
                              Join the Civ2 Democratic Game! We have a banana option in every poll just for you to vote for!
                              Many thanks to Zealot for wasting his time on the jobs section at Gamasutra - MarkG in the article SMAC2 IN FULL 3D? http://apolyton.net/misc/
                              Always thought settlers looked like Viking helmets. Took me a while to spot they were supposed to be wagons. - The pirate about Settlers in Civ 1

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