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You should speak the language of a country if you live there.

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  • You should speak the language of a country if you live there.

    I don't want to sound like Pat Buchanan or anything here. Most people know me as a liberal. But there is one issue I can't understand.
    Last night at work, I was talking to one of the Mexicans who works with me. We got to talking about other people who he came to America with. My friend has citizenship, although he originally came to the US illegally. Although he took it upon himself to learn English, many people he came to America with didn't. Many of these people are still here illegally. I see something wrong with that. If you move to a country and wish to become a member of that society, you should conform, i.e. learn the language. If you don't want to, then get the hell out.

    My family immigrated to America in 1958. My mom was 9, the oldest of 3. My grandfather and grandmother had nothing but what they could carry. My grandfather was able to settle in Chicago (legally) and start his own shoe repair business. My grandmother and grandfather learned English (although sometimes broken ) and became naturalized. My grandmother became a nurse, and my grandfather ran his shoe repair business until he was 75. He is now 80 years old, and he still works 40 hours a week at another guy's store (a Greek friend of his).

    My point being... my family escaped the horrors of war in Europe, and then escaped the horrors of communism. They waited, followed the rules, and came to this country legally. When they got here, they spoke no English, yet learned so they could become productive members of American society. If they could do it, why can't the millions of illegals coming over do it?

    Conversely, if I move to France, I'm going to learn French.
    To us, it is the BEAST.

  • #2
    /shrug/ You live how you can. If you don't need to learn the language, you don't need to. If you do need to and don't learn it, you just can't really blame anyone but yourself.

    Although learning languages whether you live overseas or not is good.
    Consul.

    Back to the ROOTS of addiction. My first missed poll!

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    • #3
      If you plan to stay in a country and raise a family, of course you should learn the language. I've read that a few of the more radical Muslim communties in Britain are actually encouraging their children not to learn English. If they are allowed to live in a country and become citizens, the least they can do is learn the national language.

      People that are just over to work for a few years and plan to return to their own countries eventually shouldn't have an obligation to learn the language. It would be of enormous benefit for them to do it though. I spent some time last year working in Rome and made sure I learned enough Italian to get by before I went. You can't go over to another country and expect the locals to speak your langauge just to suit you.
      STDs are like pokemon... you gotta catch them ALL!!!

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      • #4
        One of the things that is bothering me is that many Latinos in California want public schools to only teach Spanish.
        To us, it is the BEAST.

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        • #5
          I agree with you which is pretty easy. I think that it is a joy to be able to learn another language easily(at location). And there are benefits such as understanding movies, books and newspapers. If the language is as useful as english then I wouldn't hesitate for any reason. Tell him that he is a burro!.

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          • #6
            Well, of course you can't expect the locals to learn your language, and it's kind of a courtesy to learn theirs, but if you can get away with it, why not?

            I spent three years in Malaysia. We learned a few words of Malay - otherwise we didn't need anything else - everyone spoke English. I'm not advocating that everyone should just learn English, dammit (I'm not Wiglaf ), but if you can get away with it, there should be no problem. And if there is a problem, it's your own fault.
            Consul.

            Back to the ROOTS of addiction. My first missed poll!

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            • #7
              It is not as easy as you make it out to be, Sava.

              Consider how an illegal lives his life, then imagine how that person could fit learning a language in there somewhere.
              (\__/) 07/07/1937 - Never forget
              (='.'=) "Claims demand evidence; extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence." -- Carl Sagan
              (")_(") "Starting the fire from within."

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Urban Ranger
                It is not as easy as you make it out to be, Sava.

                Consider how an illegal lives his life, then imagine how that person could fit learning a language in there somewhere.
                I never said it was easy. But my family had to escape a lot worse situations to get here, and they did it.
                To us, it is the BEAST.

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                • #9
                  If they want to speak only Spanish, the U.S. should accomodate them by shipping them back to Mexico. Unless Spanish is a national language in the U.S.? Even so, they should still have to take English classes.

                  Here in Ireland, there are two national languages, Irish and English. The amount of people that use Irish as their first langauge is very small, but everyone still has to learn it throughout Primary and Secondary School. So theres no excuse for these demands for exclusively Spanish schools in the U.S.
                  STDs are like pokemon... you gotta catch them ALL!!!

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                  • #10
                    I wonder if we should get in on this...
                    Asher, Tingkai, KH, any thoughts ?
                    What?

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                    • #11
                      They should learn english, for their own sake if nothing else. Getting a decent job without decent english is probably hard. The problem might be that those that don't learn the language works and lives in a ethnic enclave where you don't actually need english to survive.

                      Learning a language isn't that easy if you're not a kid. If there's no short time advantage to learn english (you can get a job in a segmented part of the labour market, like a sweat shop etc) people will not do it.

                      But this might just turn out to be a first generation problem. 2nd generation immigrants almost always learn the language. If they don't something is seriously wrong about their surroundings and their possibilities.

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                      • #12
                        Last year I visited Zimbabawe. The official language there is English, though the local people also speak the local languages Shona and Ndebele. The white population in Zimbabawe didn't bother to learn any of the local languages. Do you think they should, or else why shouldn't they? They are able to help themselves perfectly in Zimbabwe, but so are hispanic immigrants in the USA, who can continue to speak spanish in the neighbourhoods where they live.
                        "I will not give you a cup of water if you were drowning in the desert!"

                        Just my favourite CIV-quote. :)

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                        • #13
                          But they are white so that's different

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Dr. Stiby
                            Last year I visited Zimbabawe. The official language there is English, though the local people also speak the local languages Shona and Ndebele. The white population in Zimbabawe didn't bother to learn any of the local languages. Do you think they should, or else why shouldn't they? They are able to help themselves perfectly in Zimbabwe, but so are hispanic immigrants in the USA, who can continue to speak spanish in the neighbourhoods where they live.
                            There are too many flaws in your argument to point out. The biggest one being the comparison between the US and Zimbabwe. The white's in Zimbabwe aren't trying to change the local government in regards to paying for their schooling, etc. The whites have created their own society within Zimbabwe. That situation is entirely different from this one.
                            To us, it is the BEAST.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Kropotkin
                              They should learn english, for their own sake if nothing else. Getting a decent job without decent english is probably hard. The problem might be that those that don't learn the language works and lives in a ethnic enclave where you don't actually need english to survive.

                              Learning a language isn't that easy if you're not a kid. If there's no short time advantage to learn english (you can get a job in a segmented part of the labour market, like a sweat shop etc) people will not do it.

                              But this might just turn out to be a first generation problem. 2nd generation immigrants almost always learn the language. If they don't something is seriously wrong about their surroundings and their possibilities.
                              My mexican friend says that the 2nd generation is not learning English.
                              To us, it is the BEAST.

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