Theory of Evolution Should have never been a part of this game!

[Jethro83]

Originally posted by DrFell


Some scientists, like all people, just hate to see the kind of ignorance and lies some of the creationists display on these kind of threads. Nothing to do with stress.

I also hate to see ignorance and lies of creationists. As I already said, even though both sides have a valid argument, both sides still tell lies and show themselves to be narrow-minded (although it is mostly creationists who are being narrow-minded. A true scientist needs to be open minded).

Again, my point is that this is a trivial matter that has no importance in the greater scheme of things, and it seems so senseless that people are attacking each other over it.

[Provost Harrison]

I guarantee you that this issue has never made me lose a second of sleep, nor interfered with my research.

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by LordAzreal
"Theory of Evolution Should have never been a part of this game!"... a statement that is true. All it accomplished was this huge division you see before you. Imagine how many diseases we could have cured in the time we have been bickering about this.

This statement is rather ironic because the theory of evolution has played a part in curing diseases. The medical community recognizes that an antibiotic can kill off many viruses, but that some survive and evolve into viruses that are immuned to the antibiotic. The recognition that this evolution is occurring leads to the development of better antibiotics. So the Theory of Evolution has actually helped people, unlike creationist theory.

[Jethro83]

Originally posted by Tingkai

This statement is rather ironic because the theory of evolution has played a part in curing diseases. The medical community recognizes that an antibiotic can kill off many viruses, but that some survive and evolve into viruses that are immuned to the antibiotic. The recognition that this evolution is occurring leads to the development of better antibiotics. So the Theory of Evolution has actually helped people, unlike creationist theory.

Oh yeah, I forgot about that. So I grant that antibiotics are one fruit of Darwin's labour. But other fields of science really don't relate to Evolution theory. Apart from the development of antibiotics, there's been absolutely no application of this theory.

And I agree that creationist theory does nothing for us either. I'm not arguing against it here. I'm just saying in my posts on this thread that some people really need to chill out. This debate isn't as important as many people make it out to be. Some people in this thread are saying that it isn't a huge division in the community and that scientists are arguing in their spare time. I'm not arguing against that. Its just that there are still people out there who are hurting each other over this debate. Or otherwise, people are taking too much offense to the opposite side of the argument to where they stand.

And my stance in this debate... I really don't care. Nobody was around in the beginning, and the world won't stop if we don't know what really happened, so there's no point in arguing about it.

[Ethelred]

Oh yeah, I forgot about that. So I grant that antibiotics are one fruit of Darwin's labour. But other fields of science really don't relate to Evolution theory. Apart from the development of antibiotics, there's been absolutely no application of this theory.

You RIGHT, nothing except:

ALL of modern biology

ALL of modern agriculture

NEW techniques for creating products based on making random variations in ANYTHING testing the new versions, keeping the best and doing it again.

gee I guess that last one covered anything else I could write.

I'm just saying in my posts on this thread that some people really need to chill out.

If thats all you said you wouldn't have had people disagreeing with you. Well except to see if you would fly off the handle that is.

Nobody was around in the beginning, and the world won't stop if we don't know what really happened, so there's no point in arguing about it.

There is ALWAYS a point in arguing against ignorance. No one was there for a LOT of things that we can fully understand by looking at the available evidence. We CAN know how man evolved. We CAN know the Earth has changed over billions of years. We CAN know that the Earth was not covered by a world wide flood a mere 4400 years ago.

[MrWhereItsAt]

Who gives a flying f***? Just because Darwinism may not be perfectly correct, or even near the mark, this doesn't change the sheer amount of thought this idea has provoked. This is what the Wonder means - something that inspires great change or achievements. Mike's Chapel and Bach's Cathedral may well be tributes to a God that doesn't exist, yet the beauty of these two Wonders has inspired generations regardless.

As for Creationism vs Darwinism in the real world.. I'm not touching that one with a ten foot pole. As for the thread title, I laugh at anyone who seriously thinks that Darwinism has meant nothing to thought or scientific achievement, much as I laugh at those who doubt the power of any deity to inspire His followers - be He real or imaginary.

[Th0mas]

..you want Proof?

Originally posted by Draco aka Se7eN
Lorizael your example is a part of Microevelution, that does not prove evelution. Microevelolution can be proved indeed.

Im stating that Macroevolution is false, the evolution of one creature into another. .....

....just thought I'd give you a proven example of your so called 'macro evolution'.

The Hawaiian Rock Wallaby vs the Australian Wallaby

Firstly what do we mean by a species? Simple definition: individuals can interbreed and produce viable offspring.

So wallabys transported to Hawaii, 75 years later the Hawaiian Wallabys are now classified as a separate species distinct from the original Australian population.

The two populations (Hawaiian and Australian) of Wallabys now cannot interbreed - not even by artificial insemination. They cannot even produce young that are sterile (a la. Mules from Horses and donkeys).

ref: Sharman, G.B., Close, R.L, Maynes, G.M., 1991, Chromosome evolution, phylogeny, and speciation of rock wallabies, Australian Journal of Zoology, Volume 37(2-4), pages 351-363

Originally posted by Draco aka Se7eN
I have read a lot of books on evolution if you wish to get technical so be it.

...bring it on you prat

[Provost Harrison]

Don't get wound up, Draco has said he's 'read all these books' but we know perfectly well he hasn't, he just falls flat on his face whenever he tries to argue.

Oh, the spinoffs of the theory of evolution. Well a good proportion of our present day knowledge of biology, genetics and biochemistry, and all that brings with it, pharmacology, modern medicine, biotechnology, genetic engineering, crop breeding (in refined form),...need I go on? It was a base, a base that was refined and formed the initial basis in other related disciplines. Generally we don't bother harking back to it now, it's just taken for granted. There is no great debate over evolution any more, that battle was won decades ago...

[Jethro83]

If thats all you said you wouldn't have had people disagreeing with you. Well except to see if you would fly off the handle that is.

I wouldn't fly off the handle anyway. As much as I see futility in this debate, I can also be see an amusing side to it.

"Evolution!", "No, CREATION.", "Evolution" "no, CREATION DAMN IT!!!", "uhm... Evolution", "YOU MAKE ME SICK!!! YOU GO TO HELL!!! YOU GO TO HELL AND YOU DIE!!!"

There is ALWAYS a point in arguing against ignorance. No one was there for a LOT of things that we can fully understand by looking at the available evidence. We CAN know how man evolved. We CAN know the Earth has changed over billions of years. We CAN know that the Earth was not covered by a world wide flood a mere 4400 years ago.

Even though we CAN know it all somehow, there's the question: what next? There has and will be valid, thought-provoking debate but there will still be ignorant people. And the fact that these people are ignorant is all their problem. Leave them to live in their dream world back in the dark age. Let them have blind faith. Its their problem, not anyone else's. They won't change to your way of thinking because they are unmovable. And when they give you crap about what you believe, just turn and walk away, pay no attention, and get a restraining order of them if necessary.

[Provost Harrison]

It's when those ignorant people are so abundant that they hold sway, they can change political decisions, influence policy. That is the problem with widespread ignorance. The rest of us just have to put our head in our hands and sigh. This is what Europe sees within the US.

[Jethro83]

Originally posted by Provost Harrison
It's when those ignorant people are so abundant that they hold sway, they can change political decisions, influence policy. That is the problem with widespread ignorance. The rest of us just have to put our head in our hands and sigh. This is what Europe sees within the US.

They're not always that abundant. They just seem that way because nobody could be bothered to challenge their pathetic amendments in the political scene.

Why these minorities hold sway, I just don't know. I guess that as much as this matter of "creation vs. evolution" is trivial, it is a front in the battle against their vision of a second dark age. But to say that all creationists are ignorant is merely a generalisation. I know people whose belief in this matter combines the more believable aspects of creation with the more believable aspects of evolution, and this hybrid belief seems logical enough sometimes.

[Provost Harrison]

Yeah, but bringing 'believable' aspects of creation always seems weak if you ask me. Some of the manipulations of the creationist story I have heard, blaming mistranslation and the like, so the bible still looks right in the face of unsurmountable knowledge.

[Jethro83]

Creation doesn't always have to be associated with the bible. The 'creator' doesn't even have to be known as God.

Deists (to my knowledge anyway) are creationists, but they denounce the bible as a load of drivel (historical evidence speculates that bits and pieces of the bible were VOTED into existence by Constantine I and a confederation of Christian priests).

The belief in creation is quite simply the belief that a sentient supreme being(s) created the world as we see it. This 'supreme being' could be a member of an extra-terrestrial race for all we know. We could've been the results of another race's grand experiment. Its just something we'll never know for sure.

Being a creationist doesn't mean believing what is said in the bible word-for-word.

The ignorant creationists are however the ones who blindly follow the so-called Lord's scriptures unquestioningly.

[Zachriel]

The number one evidence and the number one rule of evolution is the extinction of species. This is an ongoing process. Biological sciences are crucial. We are entering an era of rapid, and possibly artificial, evolution. If we teach our children falsehoods, then they will be ill-prepared to meet this future.

Of all people, fellow Christians should be the ones most willing to uphold the truth. Remember Galileo, a devout Christian who confronted the Inquisition because of his love of the truth.

Zachriel
Angel who Rules over (Historical) Memory

[Provost Harrison]

Well if it is acknowledged that most of the bible is bull**** (I have no qualms with this being an atheist myself), then surely that undermines the whole of Christianity anyway. Why do they bother? Messing with a loophole in the human psyche, that is all religion really is.