Theory of Evolution Should have never been a part of this game!

[DrFell]

Originally posted by Provost Harrison
And this underlying issue of 'the watchmaker' creationist defence thus falls apart if this underlying 'lie' does not apply.

The watchmaker stuff is bull**** however you look at it. You can't compare a line of creatures who have evolved over billions of years each with slight changes, to a watch which was designed all at once. It's not as if humans spung full formed from the primeval mud (seems ironic though that this is what the creationists believe to be true, yet it is the only way the watchmaker argument could be considered valid).

[Jethro83]

The whole "Creation vs. Evolution" debate is a load of crap. Both sides have valid arguments, while they also have crap.

Nobody was around to see it happen, and there will be no real benefit to science if we did know.

"Theory of Evolution Should have never been a part of this game!"... a statement that is true. All it accomplished was this huge division you see before you. Imagine how many diseases we could have cured in the time we have been bickering about this. Imagine how far space travel would've gone were it not for this. It is simply a waste of time, diverting attention away from research projects that would make a difference.

So why are we bickering like children over this issue? Why can't we stop this madness and divert more of our attention towards life-saving cancer research, or landing people on Mars. This issue is just something we are not meant to know, and won't be of any benefit if we did.

[Zachriel]

A view from the National Academy of Sciences

There is no dispute about Evolution within the scientific community. Here is the view of the National Academy of Sciences.

http://books.nap.edu/html/creationism/introduction.html

[Zachriel]

Originally posted by fezick31
2) The Helio-centric theory did not disagree with anything in the bible. No where do scriptures say the earth is flat.

But it does have corners and foundations.

JOB
38:4-6
Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest ? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened ? or who laid the corner stone thereof;

Or course, this was never meant to be taken literally.

[Provost Harrison]

This is true DrFell, but I was more specifically trying to attack Lincoln's line of reasoning, he uses this 'information' thing a lot, quite incorrectly.

Quite Dienstag. I think I speak for most evolutionists here in saying that we have not chosen a line and stuck to it. All this debate and reasoning, we've 'been there, done that, got the T-shirt'. I find all this stuff incredibly repetitive, I should just write out these arguments and save them to my hard drive as they just get used over and over again as the creationists line of reasoning never changes, never gets more intelligent, never improves. They attack at what they consider to be the flaws in the theory. They never win. And they never even attempt to go head on and challenge Neodarwinism because they can't, the evidence is insurmountable, and there is nothing really against it, unless you intend to go up against the entire concepts of modern biology and molecular genetics, which is a lost cause from the start.

[Ethelred]

Originally posted by Draco aka Se7eN

The only thing i see to Debunk about your part about fossles is Archaeopteryx, Claimed to be transition from a dinosour to a bird. Well if you were more in touch with current scientific fact you would know that it was later to be proved just a bird and not lizzard like.

That is so false its funny. It has teath. It has no keel bone. It has no wishbone. The only thing birdlike about is wings. Its not a lizard either. Its a dinosaur that flies and is a CLEAR transition between dinosaurs and birds.

I'm amazed that with geology, biology, physics, astronomy and chemistry fitting together like jigsaws disclaim evolution, some people still believe in it.

I amazed you could tell such a blatant fabrication as that. Well not that amazed since its a standard creationist fairy story. If it was even remotely true your sources would have been published in Nature and Science rather than in Creationist vanity presses with NO peer review.

[Zachriel]

Prediction

The power of a theory is its ability to predict events. Evolution has passed this test many, many times.

For instance, Darwin hypothesized that genetic information was passed from generation to generation and that this information was probably chemical in nature. It was decades after Darwin's death, but this genetic information was found to be contained within DNA. In addition, this DNA can be manipulated and this is passed down from generation to generation also. Indeed, human insulin protein is regularly produced by genetically modified bacteria. Darwin also hypothesized that this genetic material was shared to a large extent between species. This has been proven many times over. The latest experiment showed that chimps and humans share more than 98% of the same genes.
Another Darwinist prediction, one that most people don't know, was a prediction of a new source of physical energy.

In Darwin's time, the best physicists of the day estimated the age of the Earth in Sun was at most millions of years. Chemical burning or gravitation collapse could not power the Sun for much more than millions of years, and the Earth would be geologically cold (no volcanos) using conventional energy sources. Evolution took billions of years, so the hypothesis was that there must be some other form of energy yet to be discovered which powered the Sun and heated the interior of the Earth. This energy, atomic energy, was discovered much later. This is great science -- hypothesis, prediction and confirmation.

[Ethelred]

Originally posted by Draco aka Se7eN
Carbon dating?

Explain how a Human Skeliton was found embeded in a rock dated to be over 200 million years old.

Easy. A creationist made it up and lied to you.

Just like the creationist that finally admited that he faked the alleged human and dinosaur tracks in the same strata on a Southern riverbank. Fraud is nothing new to Creationism.

[Zachriel]

The real problem

The real problem with the Creationists is that they are using their "religion" to avoid the truth. And the truth is important. We are entering an age of rapid and artificial evolution. By telling children that evolution is false, they are leaving their children ignorant of the great changes to come which will profoundly affect their lives.

This is unchristian. The truth really does matter. My God, they are ready to start cloning people!

[Seneca]

Originally posted by LordAzreal
"Theory of Evolution Should have never been a part of this game!"... a statement that is true. All it accomplished was this huge division you see before you

It's not a huge division - it's a tiny minority of American scientists vs the rest of the scientific world.

. Imagine how many diseases we could have cured in the time we have been bickering about this. Imagine how far space travel would've gone were it not for this. It is simply a waste of time, diverting attention away from research projects that would make a difference.

I suspect that creationist-bashing is something that most scientists just do in their spare time... I doubt it deflects from their serious work.
And I doubt even more that many creationist scientists would have that much of value to contribute, anyway...

[DrFell]

Originally posted by Provost Harrison
This is true DrFell, but I was more specifically trying to attack Lincoln's line of reasoning, he uses this 'information' thing a lot, quite incorrectly.

Yeah I'm too lazy to read a big thread like this.

[DrFell]

Originally posted by Seneca It's not a huge division - it's a tiny minority of American scientists vs the rest of the scientific world.

American pseudo-scientists is closer to the mark.

[Ethelred]

Originally posted by loinburger


I assumed he just didn't care.

Didn't see it. It does look like others are doing an excellent job. I am not needed. However I will butt in anyway. I am taking pot shots at about the rate of one everyother page so far. At anything I can be short on cause I want to get to the last page.

[Jethro83]

Originally posted by Seneca
It's not a huge division - it's a tiny minority of American scientists vs the rest of the scientific world.

You're right about that. But where I am, it is exaggerated to the extent that people are abusing each other over this ridiculous argument.

I suspect that creationist-bashing is something that most scientists just do in their spare time... I doubt it deflects from their serious work.
And I doubt even more that many creationist scientists would have that much of value to contribute, anyway...

They do it in their spare time? Do they even have lives? The arguments they get into probably stress them out too much, preventing them from working at optimal level on their serious work.

And just because a scientist believes in creation doesn't mean that he/she has little to contribute. That is simply a generalisation.


Besides, the point I'm trying to make is that this argument is hurting some people (believe it or not, it is still true), and it seems senseless to continue it when more energy can be diverted into beneficial projects rather than being wasted in this trivial matter. Even if it is spare time, it is still energy being wasted.

[DrFell]

Originally posted by LordAzreal
They do it in their spare time? Do they even have lives? The arguments they get into probably stress them out too much, preventing them from working at optimal level on their serious work.

Some scientists, like all people, just hate to see the kind of ignorance and lies some of the creationists display on these kind of threads. Nothing to do with stress.