The serious CPA thread (no spamming please)

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse


Yes but you would if you could - it would be off to the gulags for old horsie

I wouldn;'t

amd Chi claims to be more freedom loving than I

Jon Miller

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
the computer revolution took place because of capitalism.. there was money to be made (who would have decided it was needed back in the late 70s?)

The computer revolution took place because of the cold war. It was government funding that drove the development of computers for a long time. Heck, IBM wasn't even interested in them at first. The first computers were built with government money (both in England and in the US). The researches didn't try and make computers to get rich (which they didn't), but because they loved building things (and partially to help the war effort).

I don't know if you're a creative person or not, Imran, but creative people, whether artists or musicians or authors or scientists or designers or engineers, have a need to experiment and create, to explore the world and to express themselves. Other's people's money make it possible for us to do this, but if it wern't there, we'd do it anyways. It's what we love to do. It's what we have to do. This is one reason why a communist society would be superior, because instead of having to grub for money, creative and inquisitive people would be able express themselves and explore the world, and society as a whole would benefit.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
Yes but you would if you could - it would be off to the gulags for old horsie

I believe in freedom of expression and freedom of belief. If you were being deliberately disruptive (and this is a poor troll, since I can use it to launch an actual discussion ) I might consider locking the door if we were meeting in a room, or complaining to the Mods for say, posting pictures of penises. But that is because you would be trying to deny our rights to freedom of expression and freedom of debate.

Personally, I welcome your silliness and play, because they are necessary for human psychological health. (Such expressions have often gotten me frowned upon by my more dour comrades.) And commies need to be silly and play too. It's part of being human.

[Imran Siddiqui]

This is one reason why a communist society would be superior, because instead of having to grub for money, creative and inquisitive people would be able express themselves and explore the world, and society as a whole would benefit.

And technology would suffer as a consequence. You can be creative, just don't expect me to pay for your flights of fancy .

Society benefits much more from advancements in technology than creativeness.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Society benefits much more from advancements in technology than creativeness.

You think society doesn't benefit from music?

[Imran Siddiqui]

Notice I didn't say it doesn't benefit society AT ALL, but rather much less than advancements in technology.... and yes music has much less benefit than computers or drug research.

[GeneralTacticus]

If you make the sole motive of science improving the quality of people's lives... you will restict it severely. Many things that may be useful eventually will not be discovered. If making people's lives better was the sole motive, then...

Quantum physics would be unknown (how exactly does it improve people's lives?)

We would never have been to the Moon.

We would never have sent out space probes into the solar system.

The Theory of Relativity would not exist.

We would not know about the atom.

We would not know about evolution.

And of course, just because you intend to do right, doesn't mean you do. If the world was run by communists, we might have decided that it would improve people's lives to dump all of our pollution in places where people don't go and use up the world's resources just as capitlaism does (except that because the benefits are going to everyone, no-one complains and therefore no restrictions are placed).

People aren't suddenly far more visionary just because they're now working for everyone else and not themselves.

[chequita guevara]

That's a valid critique, GT. However, I'd like to hope that a democratically run society might be a bit smarter about it's impact on the environment. I thing we might, at least, have not dumped so much pollution into our own backyards. But if we did, it would be our own fault, instead of something that was done to us by someone else.

[GeneralTacticus]

Well, if everyone is working for the benefit of everyone else, that's not all that much of a change from capitalism. The only difference is that the profits are spread around.

And just because a society is capitalist, doesn't mean it's ruled by corporations. The corporations don't have any power except what is given to them. I agree that now it seems that corporations have too much power, but it doesn't have to be that way.

[Imran Siddiqui]

However, I'd like to hope that a democratically run society might be a bit smarter about it's impact on the environment

*looks at American public*

I'd doubt it .

[Zoid]

JM et al, the development in society the recent 10 years or so show that the old communist parties have been side-tracked by reality. What is needed now is wide-ranging alliances, look at Italys Rifondazione Communista, Brazils PT, Denmarks red green Enhedlisten, Portugals Bloco de Esquerda and Great Britains Socialist Alliance. They have all managed to turn the tide so to speak, and this is by incorporating all or some of the subjects we discussed earlier.

And Horsie, we wouldn´t shoot you. We would make you the court jester/fool...

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by Kamrat X
JM et al, the development in society the recent 10 years or so show that the old communist parties have been side-tracked by reality. What is needed now is wide-ranging alliances, look at Italys Rifondazione Communista, Brazils PT, Denmarks red green Enhedlisten, Portugals Bloco de Esquerda and Great Britains Socialist Alliance. They have all managed to turn the tide so to speak, and this is by incorporating all or some of the subjects we discussed earlier.

And Horsie, we wouldn´t shoot you. We would make you the court jester/fool...

please explain further (how have they become sidetracked by reality??P??

it seems to me that many 'communist' parties have basically shifted communism under the rug and took on different battles

when today, in the time of Globalisation, we need communism (the standard communism), more than ever

Jon Miller

[Az]

Wait a minute , I am for incentives , such as higher pay, etc.

I just don't think the capitalist system is the way to do it.

[Az]

oh ,and Jon, I find myself agreeing with you on more and more issues.

GT , I think by exploring the world , people would also engage in pure theoretical science, not only one that would lead to discoveries straight away. After all , it's not like corporations have an interest in scientific research. Most of it is paid by govts.

[Az]

bump ... trying to keep it in the top page...

so KX, how would your perfect state look?