Is rap music really music?

[Solly]

Originally posted by reds4ever
Bod, ready for the semi's?

Yeah, but you better not be going for the stale 0-0 draws both legs.

[sparkplug]

Originally posted by Caesar the Great
heres a pratical anti-rap arguement...

Any rap that has meaning is generally about racism and the ghettos and social injustices. There is nothing wrong with that. Unfortunately it does create attitudes in the black communities that are problematic. First of all, nearly all if not all rap uses socially unacceptable language and hardly ever even resembles proper english. In general blacks who listen to this music are not upper class and live in poorer neighborhoods. At home they are not exposed to proper english, at school and everywhere the same is true. Thus the only manner in which they know how to speak is the kind all around them, and in particular in rap music. Yes, this is partly due to a failure by schools and parents but nonetheless music's influence cannot be denied here. Without knowledge of proper speech nor writing skills it becomes very hard for lower class blacks to advance in society, rather they become caught in a cycle from which they can never escape.

So you are assuming that all blacks listen to rap? I'm sure that isn't true. There are many rappers who are well versed in the english language, and rap without excessive cursing and slang.
Alot of the more 'afro-centric' emcees encourage black self sufficiency and self-determination, and encourage poor black youth to stay away from drugs. Rappers like KRS ONE,Talib Kweli, and Mos Def have put out some brilliant work, that has been ignored by the mainstream. You just have to dig beneath the surface to find the good stuff.

[Buck Birdseed]

Ahh, Backpacker Rap. I like Backpacker Rap fans almost as much as I like Americans.

[sparkplug]

Originally posted by Asher

The answer is quite simple: The majority of famous rappers are complete *******s. Many of them are even borderline racists.

Much of the more famous songs are nothing but profanity and about violence and "gangsta warfare". There is some good rap out there, but it's overshadowed by mountains of crap.

Then there's the "elite" factor of it. If you're white and you listen to rap everyone automatically calls you a "whigger" and you earn the reputation of a poser.

I wouldn't mind rap if there was more of it that was good, rather than preying off the violent youth who like outlets for their anger and dream they're "ganstas".

Hip Hop is a culture. Emceeing[rap] is just a part of this culture. Hip Hop is a multi-racial culture. Its universal. There is hip hop in Japan, Europe, Africa, Latin America,everywhere. Whites can listen to rap, and whites can be a part of hip hop. Whoever calls you a wigger because you like rap is just stupid. Real hip hop has been overshadowed by commercial gangsta pop. Record companies don't care if they destroy an art form, as long as they sell records. If I asked the average person what hip hop culture means to them, they would probably say its just sex, drugs, and violence. This is not true. I don't feel like explaining everything about hip hop right now, but here is a good place to learn about hip hop.

[sparkplug]

Originally posted by Snapcase
Ahh, Backpacker Rap. I like Backpacker Rap fans almost as much as I like Americans.

Yes, I'm proud of being a rap purist.

[Asher]

Originally posted by sparkplug
Hip Hop is a culture. Emceeing[rap] is just a part of this culture. Hip Hop is a multi-racial culture. Its universal. There is hip hop in Japan, Europe, Africa, Latin America,everywhere. Whites can listen to rap, and whites can be a part of hip hop. Whoever calls you a wigger because you like rap is just stupid. Real hip hop has been overshadowed by commercial gangsta pop. Record companies don't care if they destroy an art form, as long as they sell records. If I asked the average person what hip hop culture means to them, they would probably say its just sex, drugs, and violence. This is not true. I don't feel like explaining everything about hip hop right now, but here is a good place to learn about hip hop.

I don't have a problem with any form of hip hop except the majority of rap. The majority of rap is absolute crap (watch this white boy bust out those rhymes, yo).

Snapcase sits here talking about how it's so beautiful and whatever, but as soon as a Rock group implements some rap (Linken Park comes to mind), he's one of the first people to jump on them and scream at them for making crap music.

[sparkplug]

You forgot the atrocity known as 'Limp Bizkit'!!

[Asher]

Originally posted by sparkplug
You forgot the atrocity known as 'Limp Bizkit'!!

That's not even rap. I don't know what that is...it's horrible. That's all I know.

[Jaguar]

Yes, rap is music, but some, actually, make that most of it, totally sucks.

For example, Dr. Dre's Chronic 2001 CD. 22 tracks. 2 great songs, 4 very good ones, 3 skits, and 13 bad songs. And thats the only rap CD I have. :

Example of a bad song:
"All these n----- and all these whoes, aint somebody here gon' f---?"
I mean, seriously.

But there really are some great rap songs.
Good ones from the past year, listed going backwards chronologically:

What's Luv (Fat Joe feat. Ashanti)
The Whole World (Outkast)
Rollout (Ludacris)
Welcome to Atlanta (Ludacris)
Can't Deny It (Fabolous)
#1 (Nelly)
Raise Up (Petey Pablo)
Where the Party At (Jagged Edge feat. Nelly)
Let Me Blow Ya Mind (Eve feat. Gwen Stefani)

Theres about one good rap song per month, I'd say.

Then there's a lot of great collaberations where an R&B or other non-rap artist does a song with a rapper, like City High and Eve in Caramel.

So on the whole, I'd say rap doesn't always suck. On the question of whether it is music, I'd say it is. But I believe your point is to criticize rap, not really contemplate on whether it's music.

BTW, I agree with snapcase completely.

[Jaguar]

Originally posted by Asher

That's not even rap. I don't know what that is...it's horrible. That's all I know.

[Provost Harrison]

Yes, rap with a silent 'c'

[Caesar the Great]

the entire hip hop culture is just a whole ****load of commercialized bull****... what was "art" has been torn apart and sold for 20 bucks to a bunch of poser kids who don't know anything better... there is some good rap, but the overwhelming majority of what is ever heard is absolute ****, simply made to sell records... but its not only that record companies have butchered music to make money (they've been doing that for years) its that atrocities like eminem who talk about raping women, killing gays etc are being mass marketed - this unquestionably has a strongly negative impact on kids, especially those 12/13 year old kids...

[sparkplug]

Originally posted by Caesar the Great
the entire hip hop culture is just a whole ****load of commercialized bull****... what was "art" has been torn apart and sold for 20 bucks to a bunch of poser kids who don't know anything better... there is some good rap, but the overwhelming majority of what is ever heard is absolute ****, simply made to sell records... but its not only that record companies have butchered music to make money (they've been doing that for years) its that atrocities like eminem who talk about raping women, killing gays etc are being mass marketed - this unquestionably has a strongly negative impact on kids, especially those 12/13 year old kids...

Exactly.

[Solly]

Originally posted by Caesar the Great
the entire hip hop culture is just a whole ****load of commercialized bull****... what was "art" has been torn apart and sold for 20 bucks to a bunch of poser kids who don't know anything better... there is some good rap, but the overwhelming majority of what is ever heard is absolute ****, simply made to sell records... but its not only that record companies have butchered music to make money (they've been doing that for years) its that atrocities like eminem who talk about raping women, killing gays etc are being mass marketed - this unquestionably has a strongly negative impact on kids, especially those 12/13 year old kids...

Hey but it's rebellious therefore it's amazing music!!!!!

[Buck Birdseed]

Someone seems to be stuck in a mid-seventies "all commercial music is by necessity crap" mentality, here. Not so. In fact, some of the greatest music ever has been thoroughly commercial, from Phil Spector via Motown and Bubblegum to Disco. Sure, the eighties saw the collapse of good, cutting-edge production and originality in Pop music (not that much good happened during the seventies either, mind), but Hip-Hop and Urban R&B is the renaissance of great pop production as far as I'm concerned. Purity, minimalism, exoticism, original hooks- brilliant.

Oh, and boddy- I never claimed all rebellious music is good. I claimed that all good music drives the establisment wild.