Explain to me all this Quebec thing.

[notyoueither]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Explain to me all this Quebec thing.

Pay attention MrFun. You started it. Enjoy it.

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
As opposed to the Albertans?

I'm hardly a separatist, but there's a definite historical and emotional connection in my mind to the idea of a country lost on the Plains of Abraham 240 years ago.

Albertan's what? Suck off the teat of Confederation? I don't think so. The way things are going, we'll be the only *have* province left in a while.

Whine about leaving? Yeah, there's some wing-nuts who think our best option would be to leave Confederation. They're wing-nuts. No serious leader or political organization in Alberta has ever advocated seperation. Not that the wing-nuts have not been provoked. Ever heard of the NEP? Many Albertan's lost their jobs, their homes and maybe their businesses because of greed found in Ontario and Quebec. I'd say some people of this province have good reason to be p*ssed.

I will say this. If a son of NEP ever happened, a lot of reasonable Albertans would start to look for the exits. Scr*w us once because you were too stupid to realize the consequences of central Canadian dictatorial notions and we can get past it. Scr*w us again and live with the consequences.

[Asher]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Explain to me all this Quebec thing.

Originally posted by Osweld
Right, you say that right after you get done complaing about how you think you aren't as important as Ontario or Quebec, and how the goverment is shafting you.

Jesus Osweld, you're smarter than this.
Alberta has FAR LESS VOTES than Ontario and Quebec do. This is not opinion, this is FACT.
Whoever Ontario and Quebec vote for becomes the majority government because the majority of the country lives there!

And it IS fact that Alberta gets shafted because the federal government doesn't need to worry about our votes.

No, I don't.

So why don't you refrain from commenting on it?

[General Ludd]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Explain to me all this Quebec thing.

Originally posted by Asher
So why don't you refrain from commenting on it?

I'm not, really. I don't follow politics very much so I keep out of it. However, you are always *****ing about how bad the rest of Canada is, and joking about how nice it'd be to seperate and all of that, then you get angry at quebec / seperetists for doing the same thing. You're being a hypocrite.



And I don't see where you are coming from, anyways. It's the majority the entire population of the country that choses the federal goverment, if Ontario and Quebec have more people then other provinces - so what? Why do you think that the votes from Ontario or Quebec are not as worthy as yours? Why does there even have to be such a distiction between provinces, in the first place?

And, what do you suggest? make some sort of apartheid government to ensure that Alberta has equal control of the goverment compared to Ontario and Quebec?

[KrazyHorse]

So every province other than Quebec and Ontario gets "the shaft"?



Please.

We've already been over this: Quebec and Ontario are underrepresented in Parliament.

[Asher]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Explain to me all this Quebec thing.

Originally posted by Osweld
I'm not, really. I don't follow politics very much so I keep out of it. However, you are always *****ing about how bad the rest of Canada is, and joking about how nice it'd be to seperate and all of that, then you get angry at quebec / seperetists for doing the same thing. You're being a hypocrite.

1) I don't seriously advocate separation
2) I am in the right by saying Quebec has little to no reason to whine. They've got a different culture: SO WHAT? They have quite similar politics. Almost identical. So why leave the current political scheme?
3) I strongly suggest you do actual research before partaking in this discussion

And I don't see where you are coming from, anyways. It's the majority the entire population of the country that choses the federal goverment, if Ontario and Quebec have more people then other provinces - so what? Why do you think that the votes from Ontario or Quebec are not as worthy as yours? Why does there even have to be such a distiction between provinces, in the first place?

Because of things like the NEP. Classic, textbook example. Read up on it.

And, what do you suggest? make some sort of apartheid government to ensure that Alberta has equal control of the goverment compared to Ontario and Quebec?

Or perhaps a useful senate like the US has, two votes per provine, regardless of population.

So every province other than Quebec and Ontario gets "the shaft"?

Please.

We've already been over this: Quebec and Ontario are underrepresented in Parliament.

I never said every province other than Quebec and Ontario get the shaft. Historically, Alberta has.

The evidence is all there for you. I know you know about it, but you seem to be chosing to ignore it.

And I really don't care about per capita representation, you've yet to actually prove that. You pulled the figure out of nowhere and didn't provide exact numbers as per my request.

My point is, with the current system in Canada, it's quite possible for the majority government to alienate provinces like Alberta and keep winning a majority government year after year after year.

Another example just came to me:
Years ago, Alberta overwhelmingly voted in a senator to replace one retiring. Now, this doesn't guarantee Chretien to appoint him, but since the province overwhelmingly voted in this one guy to represent us for Alberta, we expected he'd be appointed. But King Jean didn't want that. No, he instead appointed one of his liberal cronies to represent Alberta.

What a crock.

[Tingkai]

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Originally posted by Asher
I never said every province other than Quebec and Ontario get the shaft. Historically, Alberta has.

And Ontario and Quebec paid for the CPR, which cost a fortune in its day, and the main beneficiaries were the western provinces.

But I still say its the refinery fumes.

[Asher]

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Originally posted by Tingkai
And Ontario and Quebec paid for the CPR, which cost a fortune in its day, and the main beneficiaries were the western provinces.

No, Canada paid for it. Federally. Quite, quite different.

Entirely different.

But I still say its the refinery fumes.

Ontario's the place with overwhelming pollution.
You'll recall that Calgary's the cleanest city in the world.

[KrazyHorse]

"Or perhaps a useful senate like the US has, two votes per provine, regardless of population"

That's bright. PEI with a pop. of 130 000 as important as Ontario with a pop of 10 000 000.

It's always been one of the stupidest facets of the American system and now you want to import it.

[Asher]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
"Or perhaps a useful senate like the US has, two votes per provine, regardless of population"

That's bright. PEI with a pop. of 130 000 as important as Ontario with a pop of 10 000 000.

That's correct, the senate acts partially to preserve the rights of the minorities.

The purpose of a democracy is: rule of the majority, while respecting the rights of the minorities. That's not what's happening right now in Canada. And it's so very easy for you guys living in Ontario and Quebec to dismiss it as hogwash, since you're the guys sitting in Ottawa calling the shots.

It's always been one of the stupidest facets of the American system and now you want to import it.

You're right, this Canadian one makes much more sense.
Having the Prime Minister appoint his cronies to the senate FOR LIFE makes a world of difference. Everyone is fairly represented, providing they're the Prime Minister...

[KrazyHorse]

That's why our Senate has no power. None.

They can delay a bill by 90 days. That's it.

[Asher]

The entire federal government needs to be refooooooooooooooooooooooooooormed.

[Sprayber]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
"Or perhaps a useful senate like the US has, two votes per provine, regardless of population"

That's bright. PEI with a pop. of 130 000 as important as Ontario with a pop of 10 000 000.

It's always been one of the stupidest facets of the American system and now you want to import it.

I didn't know if you were aware there KH, but we do have a second house where representation is determined by population. You see you have to take the system as a whole and not just as parts.

It's always fun to watch the Canadians argue about their country. It's wholesome family fun.

BTW. Hasn't anyone looked at the new Canadian map? It seems to have improven on the older place names.

[KrazyHorse]

The entire federal government needs to be refooooooooooooooooooooooooooormed

[Guynemer]

Ummm........... I like the CBC.

And with that, Guynemer quietly snuck back across the Ambassador Bridge.

[KrazyHorse]

We can add Michigan to Greater Canada if you want...