What Is The World Like If 'The Shot Heard Round The World' Is Never Fired?

[David Floyd]

So both are immoral. The perfect system your mind has concocted isn't so perfect after all, it seems. :gasp:

Sure it is - the government can't stop me from acting immorally, that's a good thing.

Did I say that? No, my implications were that they already had it.

They didn't until Wilson turned a few minor incidents - at WORST into one.

The threat was known, they didn't need an ad to clarify. Americans rode on the ships against better judgement. But that doesn't mean that they should have lost their lives. Germany is to blame for sinking those ships. Again, the threat was real.

What WASN'T known to Americans was that the Lusitania was a valid war target.

Ads wouldn't have stopped Americans from getting on those boats.

If a nation more militarily powerful than my own said they would sink a ship, and that I shouldn't board it for my own safety, I'd sure as hell listen.
Maybe if a nation posing no credible threat (like Mexico ) said it, I might ignore it, but I wouldn't ignore WW1 Germany.

[orange]

Originally posted by David Floyd
It's certainly no less immoral than the British blockade - both sides were in the wrong, but some of those actions, while wrong, can be understood in light of the actions of the other side.

No one is painting Britain as innocent, so why do you keep bringing this point up? You implied many things, mainly that Wilson wanted to get into World War I, and that Wilson was not an isolationist as far as World War I goes.

Why would Germany "prod the Yank"? They were worried about England "prodding the Yank" into the war, and wanted some insurance.

Not on purpose, but they knew that their actions against British ships carrying American passangers were going to result in America declaring war. So they made a deal before hand to ensure that they had some counterweight. They even made deals about what territory Mexico would get for their help. You don't see Britain and America doing that with German colonies, do you?

So, basically, you realized your mistake and came up with an obvious bull**** answer to fix it? I suppose you could call the Marshall Plan a bribe to keep Europe from going Communisy, too, couldn't you?

Mistake? What mistake? That wasn't a bull**** answer. And I don't see where your analogy fits.

[David Floyd]

Not on purpose, but they knew that their actions against British ships carrying American passangers were going to result in America declaring war. So they made a deal before hand to ensure that they had some counterweight. They even made deals about what territory Mexico would get for their help. You don't see Britain and America doing that with German colonies, do you?

You saw it with convincing Italy to declare war on the Central Powers. Oops.

Now, I'm going to bed - I'll be back tomorrow.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Wierd Time Warp

[orange]

Originally posted by David Floyd
You saw it with convincing Italy to declare war on the Central Powers. Oops.

Now, I'm going to bed - I'll be back tomorrow.

Doesn't involve Wilson, does it. What are we debating - Wilson's isolationism or lack thereof. So why the examples that don't fit?

Same actually....must now or I'll be tomorrow and I'll end up having a day

[Imran Siddiqui]

If the time is straightened out .

here is what I said above:

Floyd, KH is right. Wilson NEVER wanted to go to war and only did so when public opinion was soooo high for it that he had to or the Democrats would suffer. If Roosevelt or Taft won in 1912 (as Bull Moose) we would have entered the war much earlier... maybe by 1915. The entire Republican party was basically for entry into the war to protect Britain. And the press only fanned the flames. War makes for good news.

Wilson's words after Congress passed the Declaration of War were "those damned fools". Doesn't sound like a warmonger to me.

[orange]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Floyd, KH is right. Wilson NEVER wanted to go to war and only did so when public opinion was soooo high for it that he had to or the Democrats would suffer. If Roosevelt or Taft won in 1912 (as Bull Moose) we would have entered the war much earlier... maybe by 1915. The entire Republican party was basically for entry into the war to protect Britain. And the press only fanned the flames. War makes for good news.

Wilson's words after Congress passed the Declaration of War were "those damned fools". Doesn't sound like a warmonger to me.

This Imran? It's up there.

[Ramo]

Imperial German Naval flag

Naval flag? Who cares about Imperial Germany's navy?

[TCO]

Originally posted by David Floyd


Come on. We were selling weapons to only one belligerent in a general European war.

So what, you little weasel? We are at liberty to do so. Selling weapons is not an act of war. We do this all the time. We have no obligation to sell to both sides.

[TCO]

Originally posted by David Floyd


I'm pretty sure that was against international law (selling weapons to a belligerent), BUT if it wasn't, wouldn't you agree there are still moral problems with this?



You don't make assumptions like that without some sort of evidence.

1. International law is essentially treaties like the Genevea Convention. Don't make it more than it is. There is nothing to stop us from selling weapons to one side and not to another. And noone considers this an act of war...

2. As usual, you are inconsistent in your goofy libertarianism. If this is such a crappy country, why don't you go live somewhere else? Like Mars...

[TCO]

Originally posted by David Floyd



Could be, but a)my argument is more a moral one, and b)I'm fairly certain there were still various treaties and agreements.

Your comment about international law was silly and wrong. Just take it back and we can trun to beating you for other stupidities.

[Sikander]

Originally posted by Ramo


I disagree. I'd wager that a German victory would only lead to a reverse Versailles Treaty a French "Hitler."

Now thats a funny image, and one that will probably haunt my dreams tonight.

[David Floyd]

GP, I already admitted a had no idea about international law, that my argument was a moral one primarily, and I already explained the supposed inconsistency.

More later, time for school.

[Dr Strangelove]

Around here "The Shot Heard 'Round The World" generally refers to the opening volleys of the American Revolution on the roads of Massachusetts.

[OldWarrior_42]

So , I take it then that this thread wasn't about Bobby Thompson's home run in the '51 playoff game aginst the Dodgers.

Who'da thunkit.

:-P~~