Pro-Life or Pro-Choice?

[DarkCloud]

If someone considers that all humans lives are worthless and mean ntohing- then wholesale abortion is correct.

Otherwise, until that day, wholesale abortion is killing off of our own species and, evolutionary, it does not make much sense, unless of course, you equate humans with rats rather than elepahnts. (rats kill their young so that the others may survive)

[blackice]

posted the same damned points again

Yes the ones you repeatedly ignored...

ignorant clown

as I said it is at this point it becomes clear you have nothing itellegent to say

If I say anything on topic you either ignore me or put words in my mouth, then proceed to reiterate your same tired, useless argument.

If you said anything itellegent post it twice so we all catch it ok?

Thick yes you are quite thick...if you even followed one iota of my "useless arguement" I would be amazed... you continue on this stupid diatribe about sperm being life and eggs being life.. Get a grip man it takes both...putz you go into symantics cells and other totally of topic nonsense. Abortion is about killing life..Human life not "cells"

Abortion is the extreme example of age discrimination.

Too true and since we know women kill more children then men we can try to understand why they are pro abortion...As the "superior intellect" of loinburger points out: my "useless arguement" was in part about the rights of an unborn human.
That in it self points out loinburger's character it would seem to him at any rate unborn children have no rights simply because they can not verbally say they do...it would seem menatally challenged invalids would have a tough time if he were to get his wish of King *hit...

"DarkCloud" They may have a hard time understanding what I say but you have summed it up quite well... I agree with both of you (OzzyKP) 100%

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by OzzyKP
From a youth rights perspective that I come from, it seems Abortion is the extreme example of age discrimination. Fetuses are deemed by many to not be old enough to be worthy of living. This is extreme prejudice and an extreme case of domination.

Bald assertions don't work. You must first show that a fetus is the same as a human.

[OzzyKP]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger
Bald assertions don't work. You must first show that a fetus is the same as a human.

If you are looking for scientific proof, then it doesn't exist. There is no conclusive evidence or belief as to whether a fetus is a human, also no evidence or consistent belief that a fetus isn't a human. So neither side has any absolute proof on this issue. It could go either way.

I ask you, if there is a possibility of a person hiding in the bushes, would you shoot a gun into it? There might be a person in there, there might not, you don't know. You only have your beliefs. You've got 4 people on your rights yelling "don't shoot! don't shoot! there is a person there, you'll kill him!" you've got 4 people on your left yelling "ah, go ahead, who cares? There isn't anyone there, just a bush, shoot your gun, have fun". You don't really know, so what do you do?

Personally I think the risk is too great to take a chance by pulling the trigger.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by OzzyKP
If you are looking for scientific proof, then it doesn't exist. There is no conclusive evidence or belief as to whether a fetus is a human, also no evidence or consistent belief that a fetus isn't a human. So neither side has any absolute proof on this issue. It could go either way.

Then the burden of proof lies with the side that is making the assertion.

Originally posted by OzzyKP
I ask you, if there is a possibility of a person hiding in the bushes, would you shoot a gun into it? There might be a person in there, there might not, you don't know. You only have your beliefs. You've got 4 people on your rights yelling "don't shoot! don't shoot! there is a person there, you'll kill him!" you've got 4 people on your left yelling "ah, go ahead, who cares? There isn't anyone there, just a bush, shoot your gun, have fun". You don't really know, so what do you do?

Send all eight of them to search in the bushes?

Seriously I don't see how that matters. It doesn't seem like an appropiate hypothethical scenario that has a bearing on the issue at hand.

It's that we don't know if there's something there. We know. Something is there. That something is called a fetus. The only problem we have is to figure out if this thing is the same as a human for all intents and purposes so we can accord it the same rights.

To me, it is not a human. Your milage may vary. But you have to show the proof.

[Elucidus]

Originally posted by OzzyKP


I ask you, if there is a possibility of a person hiding in the bushes, would you shoot a gun into it? There might be a person in there, there might not, you don't know. You only have your beliefs. You've got 4 people on your rights yelling "don't shoot! don't shoot! there is a person there, you'll kill him!" you've got 4 people on your left yelling "ah, go ahead, who cares? There isn't anyone there, just a bush, shoot your gun, have fun". You don't really know, so what do you do?

That is faulty logic. What benefit is there to shoot a gun into a bush? There are benefits to abortion, and beliefs are all we have to go on at this point.

Now as far as the mosquito, I used it because it is more alive of its own accord than the 50 cells growing in the womb after two weeks of pregnancy. A mosquito can live on its own, that 50 cells cannot. In my opinion when a fetus can live on its own, without being physically attach to the mother, is when it becomes human. What is that 6 months at the earliest?

[Tom201]

Im Pro Choiche in the Abortion Question.

Reasoning:
What defines a human is that he has a brain, have thoughts going thru his mind, is intelligent (or at least could be ), etc.

Everything else like reproducing, eat, etc. can also performed by an animal.

Therefor lifeforms without a brain are not human.
Now go thru the development chain.
Sperm - no brain - not human
egg - no brain - not human
bunch of cells - no brain - not human
...
than somewhere in the process, Im not sure but I think it was 4. or 5. month pregnancy the unborn child is starting to develop a brain. voila we have a human being.

Therefor bevor this status all that is killed is a alife but not a human being. The moral issue is similar to killing an animal.
I can support killing animals for the benefit of the mother.



To the death penalty issue:
I dont support it, because there were already to much innocent ppl. executed. Its not possible to have a perfect justice system, therefor death penalty is not an option.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Tom201
than somewhere in the process, Im not sure but I think it was 4. or 5. month pregnancy the unborn child is starting to develop a brain.

You need to study biology more.

[Tom201]

Originally posted by DinoDoc


You need to study biology more.

Ok than wisen me up.
Whats wrong?

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Tom201
Ok than wisen me up.
Whats wrong?

Half of your guess would be closer to the correct answer.

[Tom201]

Originally posted by DinoDoc


Half of your guess would be closer to the correct answer.

Ok than it is 2 or 3 month pregnacy and we have a brain. YaY

U have anything to say about the actual point I made?

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Tom201
U have anything to say about the actual point I made?

No, for the most part, I'm staying out of this thread.

[Elucidus]

So for initially finding out your pregnant if it is before 2 months into it, then abortion is not killing a human being?

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Elucidus
So for initially finding out your pregnant if it is before 2 months into it, then abortion is not killing a human being?

Reading your previous post, I didn't think you cared if it had a brain or not.

[November Adam]

Loinburger do you mind if I wade into the embryo human issue?

I will agree with you that an embryo does have a parsitic relationship with the mother. So what.

As I'm sure you are well aware a biological organism has a life cylce. The human lifecycle starts as an embryo. Regardless of being "alive", or able to live independently, this is how it starts for the species known as homo sapien.

Blood cells, brain cells, and stem cells are NOT human, rather parts of a human. An embryo is a human that at it's state in it's life cycle consists of 1, then 2, then 4, then 8...... cells.