Pro-Life or Pro-Choice?

[blackice]

It isn't, at the time of its abortion, a human. It cannot surivive independently of its host.

Back to redundant see above...

An infant does not gain nutrients from a host's blood stream. An infant does not gain oxygen from a host's blood stream. An infant does not live within a host's amniotic sac. I'd hardly call this "redundant" with the parasitism of an embryo.

Oh tripe and you know it oxygen. an invalid sometimes needs an iron lung and parents love therefore a perisite? Blood stream a transfusion "kill them now"? food I prepare because my infant can not=amniotic sac.

Moving on....

par·a·sit·ism Pronunciation Key (pr-s-tzm, -s-)
n.
The characteristic behavior or mode of existence of a parasite or parasitic population.
Parasitosis.

Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

parasitism

\Par"a*si`tism\, n. [Cf. F. parasitisme.] 1. The state or behavior of a parasite; the act of a parasite. ``Court parasitism.'' --Milton.

2. (Bot. & Zo["o]l.)The state of being parasitic.
Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc.

parasitism

n : the relation between two different kinds of organisms in which one receives benefits from the other by causing damage to it (usually not fatal damage)
Source: WordNet ® 1.6, © 1997 Princeton University

parasitism
A type of symbiosis where two (or more) organisms from different species live in close proximity to one another, in which one member depends on another for its nutrients, protection, and/or other life functions.

The dependent member (the parasite) benefits from the relationship while the other one (the host) is harmed by it.

(09 Oct 1997)

I hate to pull the dictionary on you but let's be real I have had a few paricidic friends too...It obviously is based...your entire arguement on what "you" define as "parasidic" You continuously ignore the fact that some humans "living" fall in your description....Lame move on the mere fact that a human forms and is a "parasitism" should not mean death....unless you include all forms of life that "in which one member depends on another for its nutrients" and that includes "YOU

Do they gain nutrients from somebody else's blood stream? Do they gain oxygen from somebody else's blood stream? Do they live within somebody else's amniotic sac? If not, then you're drawing false parallels.

So what you are saying is the mere fact human procrete they way they do should mean certain death based on life in the food chain as we know it?

[Jaguar]

Originally posted by David Floyd
You're comparing apples and oranges with abortion and the DP - now stop trolling

He's not comparing apples and oranges. He's comparing apples and elephants.

How does being pro-choice involve the death penalty?

[loinburger]

Originally posted by blackice
Oh tripe and you know it oxygen. an invalid sometimes needs an iron lung and parents love therefore a perisite?

Is the iron lung dying as a result of the invalid's use of it? I was not aware that iron lungs were alive. Is the parent forced to love the invalid? No, they do not love the invalid out of biological necessity, unlike the host mother who has no choice as to whether or not an embryo takes nutrients from her blood stream.

Blood stream a transfusion "kill them now"?

It's not parasitism when the "host" has a choice in the matter. A mother with an embryo does not have a choice in whether or not she is going to give up nutrients and oxygen, a blood donor does have a choice.

food I prepare because my infant can not=amniotic sac.

Now you're grasping at straws. An amniotic sac is an actual integrated part of a woman's body. Your food processor/oven/whatever is not an integrated part of your body, therefore preparing food for your infant is not equivalent to being an amniotic sac; you are not sacrificing nutrients from your body in order to feed your infant.

I hate to pull the dictionary on you but let's be real I have had a few paricidic friends too...

So you have friends who gain nutrients and oxygen by leeching off of your blood stream? Just like how an embryo leeches nutrients and oxygen off of the blood stream of its host? Well then, roll out the red carpets, because we have an example of parasitism in a real live human being. How did your friends manage this feat of draining your blood without your consent?

Or do you mean that you have friends who seem to take more than they give, but you remain friends with them anyway? Guess what, that ain't parasitism. You have a choice in your friends, and there is almost certainly some give-and-take in your friendships; it would be unusual indeed if you were the only "giver". And guess what, if it's a give-and-take relationship then it ain't parasitism.

It obviously is based...your entire arguement on what "you" define as "parasidic"

Or, rather, on what the "dictionary" defines as "parasitic." You're the one who whipped out the dictionary, and so far everything you've described as parasitic isn't (but rather involves choice as well as give-and-take), and everything that I've described as parasitic (an embryo that takes nutrients from its host mother without in any way contributing to the health of the mother) is, indeed, parasitic according to the dictionary.

You continuously ignore the fact that some humans "living" fall in your description....

Nope, not a single human you've described counts as a parasite. Even somebody who is brain dead does not leech off of a host, but instead leeches off of machines (therefore causing them to not be in a parasitic relationship, since machines are not alive).

Lame move on the mere fact that a human forms and is a "parasitism" should not mean death....unless you include all forms of life that "in which one member depends on another for its nutrients" and that includes "YOU

I am a social animal and as such require other humans. However, there is give-and-take in my relationships with other humans; our relationships are symbiotic, not parasitic.


Good night.

[Alinestra Covelia]

Bear in mind, Blackice, that although you can try to equalize moral responsibility between the parents, biological responsibility is undeniably greater for the woman involved.

Society is full of examples where men have chosen to walk away from pregnancies for which they were responsible. Women understandably cannot do this - their lifestyles are heavily altered by the pregnancy.

Hence my statement, "the woman's choice". If you choose to interpret this as some specific attempt to "ignore 50% of the population please" then I suggest you check your premises.

[Urban Ranger]

I am pro-choice and anti-CP. I fail to see any connection between the two.


loin,

Should have ignored Mr blackice. I would have noted his copious fallacies long ago.

[Sava]

REASONS I AM PROCHOICE

God, or whatever higher power exists, makes the final judgement. Abortion is often the humane thing to do. Many Pro-Lifers get on their high horse "oh we love life" but then don't give a sh!t when the baby ends up becoming a crack head, or grows up in a terrible environment and becomes a criminal, or has other mental problems because of growing up in an instable home.

Men cannot put laws on a woman's body. Women are not objects to which laws can be placed on.



REASONS I AM FOR THE DEATH PENALTY

Death is humankind's greatest fear. Death is the ultimate punishment that can be handed out.

Even people with mental illness are not worth saving. It is impossible to undo a lifetime of mental problems in a few years. It is better for society to rid the Earth of those people.

I believe that in the life sentence, we are guaranteeing the killer a long life where he/she will be taken care of.

Not only do I believe in the death penalty for murder. But I believe it should be expanded to include rape, pedophelia, and some extreme cases of assault.


BUT

I think the justice system is corrupt and there are many innocent people. It needs reform. Open and shut cases like Andrea Yates should be eligible for the death penalty.

[Caligastia]

What makes us human as opposed to glorified apes? Intelligence

Before a baby is born it is scarcely different from the foetus of a chimp.

[loinburger]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger
Should have ignored Mr blackice. I would have noted his copious fallacies long ago.

Serves me right for giving him the benefit of the doubt. Never again.

[blackice]

Is the iron lung dying as a result of the invalid's use of it? I was not aware that iron lungs were alive. Is the parent forced to love the invalid? No, they do not love the invalid out of biological necessity, unlike the host mother who has no choice as to whether or not an embryo takes nutrients from her blood stream.

And this is where the contradicted, muddled disapprobation of a tortive, tortile "kill everything that can not defend themselves" wit resort...

It's not parasitism when the "host" has a choice in the matter. A mother with an embryo does not have a choice in whether or not she is going to give up nutrients and oxygen, a blood donor does have a choice.

tout au contraire a condom a choice you seem to ignore the fact that life is chioces...all life deserves one from fruition to "fact"

Now you're grasping at straws. An amniotic sac is an actual integrated part of a woman's body. Your food processor/oven/whatever is not an integrated part of your body, therefore preparing food for your infant is not equivalent to being an amniotic sac; you are not sacrificing nutrients from your body in order to feed your infant.

Well you have defined the obvious "kill em" it is taking my soul... you have yet to make a point to justify "killing" a life other than " I sustain it therefore I can...

So you have friends who gain nutrients and oxygen by leeching off of your blood stream?

And here you are running amok acting the hero "claiming" I put words in peoples mouths...and you, ahh I see all designed to make your mute point...lame

How did your friends manage this feat of draining your blood without your consent?

How and what did you use to feed yourself tonight?

You have a choice in your friends,

You have a choice in pregnacy too, or is it as cosmic as you perceive?

Society is full of examples where men have chosen to walk away from pregnancies for which they were responsible.

It is also full of women chosing to deny men thier right to thier child also...

Women understandably cannot do this - their lifestyles are heavily altered by the pregnancy.

Abortion allows this, yes it is a responsibility for sure one that should be looked at as a gift not a burden...

"the woman's choice"

And the man's? this comment alone obviously ignores 50% of the population...

Should have ignored Mr blackice. I would have noted his copious fallacies long ago.

As I have yours So everyone ignore Urban sure looks childish when you read it back does it not Urban...

"Many"
Many? quite the assumption...

Men cannot put laws on a woman's body. Women are not objects to which laws can be placed on.

First of all women are law makers too, second we all have laws out on us. What then makes women above the law?

"It is better for society to rid the Earth of those people."
You are the humanitarian are'nt you :eyesroll: First you have "men can not put laws on a womans body" then you want to kill all that are not up to your standard. Does this include Women that are not worthy too?

"Intelligence"
So then mentally challenged non intellegent "humans" should be killed too? :eyesroll:

Serves me right for giving him the benefit of the doubt. Never again.

So it would appear anyone with a different point of view or are labeled then should be ignored? It would appear some have very narrow views of a debate and offer very little by way of opinions. Others then agree for lack of a more intellegent stance...This forum would be quite boring if we all listened to the few "self proclaimed intellectuals" around here and thier childish notions...

[loinburger]

Originally posted by blackice
So it would appear anyone with a different point of view or are labeled then should be ignored?

No, I listen to dissenting opinions, which is why up until now I haven't ignored you. However, there's no point in arguing with somebody who is (I suspect deliberately) being obtuse (a prime example being somebody who repeatedly claims that all human social relationships are parasitic ), which is why from this point forward I will ignore you.

[blackice]

a prime example being somebody who repeatedly claims that all human social relationships are parasitic

Suits me well I have compared your examples to reality of life and mentally challenged invalids. This you have ignored throughout. I suspect it is because you have no retort other than to ignore the obvious and the "facts". Obtuse? I see nothing obtuse in what I have said what so ever. Obtuse would be saying "that bleeding amounts to mass murder" such as you have done. If that is all you have to offer obtuse definately fits your arguement from your "conception" onward... I will take this as you conceed the points and move on...

[loinburger]

Originally posted by blackice
Obtuse? I see nothing obtuse in what I have said what so ever.

Of course you wouldn't. You're obtuse.

Obtuse would be saying "that bleeding amounts to mass murder" such as you have done.

You've taken that so far out of context as to strip it of all of its intended meaning.

I will take this as you conceed the points and move on...

You already did that over sixty posts ago.

[blackice]

You're obtuse

No I have made valid points you can not answer to...I have found when someone resorts to this type of dictatorial diatribe it clearly shows an absense of thought and thier weak position...

You've taken that so far out of context as to strip it of all of its intended meaning.

It had no meaning to begin with...your arguement is based on the abstract. Life starts with conception baring natural abortion it will become a human. To simply destroy a life because it can not defend itself is criminal at best. I guess it boils down to at what age do you consider life has no value...other than the cost of an abortion...

You already did that over sixty posts ago.

Right...it would seem once again you have nothing to say...on topic that is...mud slinging is the most childish form of debate have at it...

[loinburger]

Originally posted by blackice
No I have made valid points you can not answer to...

Maybe your points were valid the first time you made them. When you ignored my responses and posted the same damned points again you showed that you were being willfully obtuse.

It had no meaning to begin with...

It was in response to Cloud9's claim that blood cells were human beings, you ignorant clown. Next time try reading the whole post before you respond to it.

Right...it would seem once again you have nothing to say...on topic that is...

You leave me with no choice. If I say anything on topic you either ignore me or put words in my mouth, then proceed to reiterate your same tired, useless argument. The only way I've found to penetrate that thick skull of yours is to try to rip your blinders off by force.

[OzzyKP]

Originally posted by Snapcase
From a power-relative perspective quite obviously the right (as it always does) is trying to decrease the power of a weaker group (here women).

From another power-relative perspecitive, quite obviously the left (as it always does) is trying to decrease the power of a weaker group (here children).

From a youth rights perspective that I come from, it seems Abortion is the extreme example of age discrimination. Fetuses are deemed by many to not be old enough to be worthy of living. This is extreme prejudice and an extreme case of domination.