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EU retaliation in steel war.

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  • #91
    AS:

    Worthwhile points you brought up. What do you know of value-added locally-owned ag ventures? Would that be a good way to help family-level farmers stay on the farm? Around where I live, it's the latest "rage" so to speak, but we still have only a few such actual ventures (a soybean plant and four ethanol plants).

    A little "outside the farm belt" perspective would be appreciated.

    Gatekeeper
    "I may not agree with what you have to say, but I'll die defending your right to say it." — Voltaire

    "Wheresoever you go, go with all your heart." — Confucius

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    • #92
      Dan, the integrated steel plants are funding the pensions of more people than they have active employees. Can't remember exact numbers though, but I'll try to look them up


      One on the job, three on pension, IIRC.
      12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
      Stadtluft Macht Frei
      Killing it is the new killing it
      Ultima Ratio Regum

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      • #93
        Something along those lines, yes. From the economist I learned that, the steel industry funds health and pension benefits of 600,000 retired steel workers (against 160,000 currently employed), costing $13 billions annually.
        These costs are also concentrated in a circle of traditional integrated steel producers, which are also the most troubled companies.
        DISCLAIMER: the author of the above written texts does not warrant or assume any legal liability or responsibility for any offence and insult; disrespect, arrogance and related forms of demeaning behaviour; discrimination based on race, gender, age, income class, body mass, living area, political voting-record, football fan-ship and musical preference; insensitivity towards material, emotional or spiritual distress; and attempted emotional or financial black-mailing, skirt-chasing or death-threats perceived by the reader of the said written texts.

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        • #94
          I just read that the White House declined to expand a program designed to support and retrain workers who lost their jobs due to import competition, named Trade Adjustment Assistance. It seems downright bizarre to me that this is not acceptable while it is to discredit your trade policies and infuriate steel exporters.
          DISCLAIMER: the author of the above written texts does not warrant or assume any legal liability or responsibility for any offence and insult; disrespect, arrogance and related forms of demeaning behaviour; discrimination based on race, gender, age, income class, body mass, living area, political voting-record, football fan-ship and musical preference; insensitivity towards material, emotional or spiritual distress; and attempted emotional or financial black-mailing, skirt-chasing or death-threats perceived by the reader of the said written texts.

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          • #95
            If those numbers are from the Economist, don't believe them.

            A $12 billion figure seems to stick in my head. 250K employed. These could be tweaked figures, though.

            In any event, that's quite substantial and enough money to have a little scuffle among friends.
            I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

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            • #96
              If I have to choose between something that's stuck in your mind and the economist, I'll go for the latter, thank you.
              DISCLAIMER: the author of the above written texts does not warrant or assume any legal liability or responsibility for any offence and insult; disrespect, arrogance and related forms of demeaning behaviour; discrimination based on race, gender, age, income class, body mass, living area, political voting-record, football fan-ship and musical preference; insensitivity towards material, emotional or spiritual distress; and attempted emotional or financial black-mailing, skirt-chasing or death-threats perceived by the reader of the said written texts.

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              • #97
                Suit yourself. You'll never know what you missed.
                I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

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                • #98
                  Yeah well whatever, the American Iron and Steel Institute says the steel industry employed 139,000 in January 2002.
                  DISCLAIMER: the author of the above written texts does not warrant or assume any legal liability or responsibility for any offence and insult; disrespect, arrogance and related forms of demeaning behaviour; discrimination based on race, gender, age, income class, body mass, living area, political voting-record, football fan-ship and musical preference; insensitivity towards material, emotional or spiritual distress; and attempted emotional or financial black-mailing, skirt-chasing or death-threats perceived by the reader of the said written texts.

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                  • #99
                    Yeh, well the Economist should have checked its numbers. They were 20,000 off! And they get paid to check their facts. I can rely on industry lobbyists.

                    The BLS says 191,000, down from about 235,000 in '98. This doesn't include iron ore or coal producers tied to the steel industry.

                    404 Not Found
                    http://www.uswa.org/press/steelcrisis020102.html
                    Last edited by DanS; March 29, 2002, 20:10.
                    I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

                    Comment

                    • #100
                      Originally posted by DanS
                      Yeh, well the Economist should have checked its numbers. They were 20,000 off! And they get paid to check their facts. I can rely on industry lobbyists.
                      Was Arthur Andersen involved in this?
                      "My nation is the world, and my religion is to do good." --Thomas Paine
                      "The subject of onanism is inexhaustable." --Sigmund Freud

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                      • #101
                        "They were 20,000 off!"

                        And you were off, like 100,000?

                        AISA says 139,000, source: BLS. Obviously, differences are due different standards so stop being a cheap nitpicker.
                        DISCLAIMER: the author of the above written texts does not warrant or assume any legal liability or responsibility for any offence and insult; disrespect, arrogance and related forms of demeaning behaviour; discrimination based on race, gender, age, income class, body mass, living area, political voting-record, football fan-ship and musical preference; insensitivity towards material, emotional or spiritual distress; and attempted emotional or financial black-mailing, skirt-chasing or death-threats perceived by the reader of the said written texts.

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                        • #102
                          No, no. I was off by less when you consider the mining jobs. Check the BLS figures for yourself. 190k, just for steelworkers.

                          Access Denied
                          http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t11.htm


                          I bumped this up, because the Post had a good article on the political dynamics going on here.

                          http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A41178-2002Mar30.html


                          This is totally "inside baseball", so y'all might not be too interested. But to clearly understand where Bush is coming from, it might be useful for you to consider his political goals.
                          I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

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                          • #103
                            Well didn't dubya get the teamsters on board for Alaska oil drilling ? So he is successfully expanding the party's corruption base.

                            Say what you want, I call that special interest whoring corruption.

                            Comment

                            • #104
                              Originally posted by GP
                              Actually subsidies of this sort are a wealth transfer. While the farmers in the 3rd World are hurt, the 3rd World country overall benefits (wealths is transferred from rich country to poor one, when goods are "dumped". Most extreme example would be getting free stuff.)
                              Is it? If there are no subsidies maybe the ag businesses will actually have to compete with the local small farmers, which means less money is needed to import food, and that means less wealth transferred to another country.
                              (\__/) 07/07/1937 - Never forget
                              (='.'=) "Claims demand evidence; extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence." -- Carl Sagan
                              (")_(") "Starting the fire from within."

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                              • #105
                                Originally posted by Gatekeeper
                                AS:

                                Worthwhile points you brought up. What do you know of value-added locally-owned ag ventures? Would that be a good way to help family-level farmers stay on the farm? Around where I live, it's the latest "rage" so to speak, but we still have only a few such actual ventures (a soybean plant and four ethanol plants).

                                A little "outside the farm belt" perspective would be appreciated.

                                Gatekeeper
                                Try organic farming.
                                (\__/) 07/07/1937 - Never forget
                                (='.'=) "Claims demand evidence; extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence." -- Carl Sagan
                                (")_(") "Starting the fire from within."

                                Comment

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