Guns in the U.S need to go away now (or in a few years :))

[Wraith]

--"Actually, doctors are very good with gun shot wounds and stuff like that. Com'on, where do you think criminologists got their info?"

This is also called a strawman

Please read the article, UR. Let me quote a small segment.

As a result of these limitations, combined with a willingness to combine scholarship with personal advocacy of a political agenda (Kates et al. 1995; see Teret et al. 1990 for an overt defense of advocacy research), research published in medical outlets is commonly of poor quality. The major exceptions are (1) research on the more traditionally medical aspects of gun violence, such as the frequency and nature of gunshot wounds and their treatment, and (2) research providing simple descriptions of gun homicides, suicides, accidents, and nonfatal woundings, usually based on examination of hospital and medical examiner records. Medical researchers are better qualified than others to do the former kind of work, while the latter requires only modest research skills.

Unfortunately, the central research issues in the guns-violence field are ones of causal linkages. Does greater gun availability cause more violence? Do higher violence rates cause higher gun ownership rates? Does the use of a gun by an aggressor cause higher risks of attack, injury, or death -for the victim? Does the use of a gun by a victim cause lower risks of attack, injury, or death for the victim? It is fair to describe the work of medical researchers on these issues as almost uniformly incompetent, and consistently biased.

You can read the link for the details and justifications.

Wraith
"If love can kill people, hatred can also save them."
-- ("Noir")

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by MrFun
Until recently, the Supreme Court has ruled that individual American citizens did not have the right to bear arms.

You are going to have to provide a source for that, because I am rather positive it is false.

[Dis]

OK wraith. Then we should allow machine guns as well to be sold the the public. Because making them illegal is like making profanity illegal in speech. It is a restriction on a right.

I don't buy it.

And yes I was kidding when I said guns are bad. guns are cool . But that is because I'm smart enough to handle one without accidently killing other people. I am qualified on pistols and shotguns after all. I can even shoot them left-handed.

And yes I made the original post to get this thread rolling. While I don't support making handguns illegal today. I would like to see them illegal in 50 years or so.

[orange]

Hey Wraith - a nuclear weapon is not good or bad, it just is. Should I be able to own one of those?

[Wraith]

--"OK wraith. Then we should allow machine guns as well to be sold the the public."

Yup. Amusingly enough, the only real Supreme Court decision on the Second Amendment (Miller), if strictly interpreted, would agree. The decision only claimed the sawed-off shotgun was not protected by the Second Amendment because it was not (to their knowledge) a viable military weapon, which a machine gun certainly is.

Edit:
About nukes and other large-scale weapons...
It is reasonable to claim that the language of the Second Amendment (keep and bear) means it is limited to man-portable weapons. I, personally, wouldn't agree, but this argument is a lot more reasonable than the "it's not an individual right" arguments. I see no reason to simply bar ownership of any single piece of property without other reasons (like felony convictions).

Wraith
"If the government doesn't trust us with our guns, why should we trust them with theirs?"

[David Floyd]

OK wraith. Then we should allow machine guns as well to be sold the the public. Because making them illegal is like making profanity illegal in speech. It is a restriction on a right.

So now you support making swearing illegal? If not, you aren't being consistent, and picking and choosing which rights you like.

Personally, I think that if you can afford a weapon of any sort, you should be able to buy and own it - that goes beyond the 2nd Amendment and into both property and privacy rights.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by David Floyd
So now you support making swearing illegal?

That depends on what kind of "swearing" you're talking about. "Fighting words" are not protected speech.

[David Floyd]

True, but saying "****" in public is.

[MrFun]

Sorry -- I made a mistake. There was no recent Supreme Court ruling, but a circuit ruling. Here is the link that was provided on another thread.

Circuit Court Ruling

[Ramo]

So now you support making swearing illegal?

Actually, profanity has been considered libel, and therefore isn't protected by the First Amendment.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Ramo
Actually, profanity has been considered libel, and therefore isn't protected by the First Amendment.

I'm going to have to ask for a case substantiating that.

[Ramo]

Roth v. United States

[Imran Siddiqui]

Ah... sources being asked for everywhere!!

I feel like I'm in Law School already .

Anyway, I think that everything under fully automatic should be allowed, but there should be licensing and registration of guns (like with cars, but only a more efficient government agency than the DMV... which shouldn't be hard knowing the mess that is the DMV ).

[Lancer]

I pity the poor fool who trys to take away my guns...

:Grim reeper smiley:

[Wraith]

--"Sorry -- I made a mistake. There was no recent Supreme Court ruling, but a circuit ruling."

Right. Now what about that precedent you mentioned as being overturned? The Supreme Court has never issued a decision that stated explicitly one way or another on this issue.

--"Actually, profanity has been considered libel, and therefore isn't protected by the First Amendment."

Unless I'm missing something, they're talking about obscenity, not profanity (which is what David Floyd is talking about).

From Roth v US:

The words "obscene, lewd and lascivious" as used in the law, signify that form of immorality which has relation to sexual impurity and has a tendency to excite lustful thoughts.

More related to porn (which seems to be the original complaint anyway) than swearing.

Wraith
"I ran three miles today. Finally I said, "Lady take your purse."
-- Emo Philips.