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We stand on the edge of the abyss. Will you fall or will you fly?
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Exult in your existence, because that very process has blundered unwittingly on its own negation. Only a small, local negation, to be sure: only one species, and only a minority of that species; but there lies hope. [...] Stand tall, Bipedal Ape. The shark may outswim you, the cheetah outrun you, the swift outfly you, the capuchin outclimb you, the elephant outpower you, the redwood outlast you. But you have the biggest gifts of all: the gift of understanding the ruthlessly cruel process that gave us all existence [and the] gift of revulsion against its implications.
-Richard Dawkins -
I think we're already halfway through our 3 million years, as the evolutionary biologists count things. But in any event, 3 million years or whatever, is not a very long period in the sweep of time.
Once you move out to the stars, you do get some interesting scenarios. I agree. But if everything goes according to the way these things go, within 10 or 20 million years, there won't be an ounce of intelligence among us.I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891Comment
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--"They say these things called "mimes,""
I think you mean memes.
Wraith
"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, you may have an exciting future as a guillotine operator"Comment
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Sorrys to say it so frankly, but unless you define "organism" very well, this number is rather meaningless. "Homo sapiens sapiens" might have existed for only a few 100 000 years. Homo Sapiens Neanderthalensis or Homo Neanderthalensis (science is even not certain about the relation to modern humans) was to my knowledge not less intelligent than we were (it's two years and a half since there was a series of articles in Scientific American), and is AFAIK well older. Fossiles quite similar to the modern humans have been dated to ages of 3 million years and I think the oldest "basic" humans have lived about 10 million years ago. These dates already have an error of some million years. So I think your number is nice (and probably true) but not really helpful.I think the average "lifespan" of an organism is about 3 million years.Why doing it the easy way if it is possible to do it complicated?Comment
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Why do you claim 3 million years as the average??Originally posted by DanS
I think we're already halfway through our 3 million years, as the evolutionary biologists count things. But in any event, 3 million years or whatever, is not a very long period in the sweep of time.
Once you move out to the stars, you do get some interesting scenarios. I agree. But if everything goes according to the way these things go, within 10 or 20 million years, there won't be an ounce of intelligence among us.
Dinosaurs existed for tens of millions of years, and the ancestors of the mammals that exist today originated 50 million years ago.
Unless dinosaurs and today's mammal, prehistoric ancestors do NOT represent the creatures of the average lifespan that you claim.
A lot of Republicans are not racist, but a lot of racists are Republican.Comment
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Hard to grasp the probability that humans, by any scientific name, will be extinct someday, isn't it?Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
"Hating America is something best left to Mobius. He is an expert Yank hater.
He also hates Texans and Australians, he does diversify." ~ BraindeadComment
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I think he means species. Otherwise as you state there are countless examples of exceptions to the 3 million year rule. Hell, even if he means species there are still exceptions to the 3 million year average. Ankylosaurus lived for approx. 5 million years.Originally posted by MrFun
Why do you claim 3 million years as the average??
I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator RubioComment
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*** DinoDoc waves the wand of clarification over MrFun's head ***Originally posted by DinoDoc
I think he means species. Otherwise as you state there are countless examples of exceptions to the 3 million year rule. Hell, even if he means species there are still exceptions to the 3 million year average. Ankylosaurus lived for approx. 5 million years.
Thanks for your clarification -- unless Dan meant something else.
A lot of Republicans are not racist, but a lot of racists are Republican.Comment
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It doesn't matter what the average "lifespan" of an organism is. If humans manage to nuke ourselves extinct, then no average lifespan can help us.Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Our species is only 100 to 200 thousand years old, so we have a relatively long run ahead of us.
The "average" is just a statistic, a compounding of the billions of species before us. Man as a species is anything but average in the Animal Kingdom, having totalled unrivaled capabilities like massive farming, power plants, and nukes, which make the 3-million year average useless as a "rule of thumb" in this specific case.Last edited by ranskaldan; March 23, 2002, 21:33.Poor silly humans. A temporarily stable pattern of matter and energy stumbles upon self-cognizance for a moment, and suddenly it thinks the whole universe was created for its benefit. -- mbelleroffComment
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MrFun: Yeh, Dino explained it right. The average lifespan for a species is 3 million years. This is important to consider when you're thinking about questions like why we haven't met other intelligent life yet, even in such a vast universe.
ranskaldan: Homo sapiens sapiens is not immune to radiation. Indeed, we would not have developed without its help. But it does limit the timeframe of our form as homo sapiens sapiens to a great degree.I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891Comment
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Yes, indeed.Originally posted by DanS
ranskaldan: Homo sapiens sapiens is not immune to radiation. Indeed, we would not have developed without its help. But it does limit the timeframe of our form as homo sapiens sapiens to a great degree.
But i think that "evolution", in the sense of a species genetically adapting to its environment, has more or less ended for much of humanity.Poor silly humans. A temporarily stable pattern of matter and energy stumbles upon self-cognizance for a moment, and suddenly it thinks the whole universe was created for its benefit. -- mbelleroffComment
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It would take a very great and rapid environmental change to abolish our species, regardless of the average life span. Now, we alter our environment, not the other way around.Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...Comment
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By destroying our own planet's ecosystem though, we might be accelerating sooner towards our extinction, and the extinction of most animal and plant life on Earth.
Maybe the destiny or fate of our evolution, is to evolve into some newer human species that will be adapted to instellar travel in ways that Homo Sapiens Sapiens are not capable of, to avoid humanity's extinction.A lot of Republicans are not racist, but a lot of racists are Republican.Comment
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If that's the case, it won't happen until we're actually living in space.
Evolution is nothing more than a halting stagger toward equilibrium with an environment that is never in equilibrium.No, I did not steal that from somebody on Something Awful.Comment
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I would like to clarify a bit.
I was a bit harsh when I said stupid.
Another poster probably had it right when they said the peopel who are best adapt to survive in our present society are apt to reproduce.
In short the people who have the best social skills tend to reproduce.
So it really is independant of intelligence. Whether this is good or bad remains to be seen.
But I think there are enough good genes to produce a decent amount of smart people. If they don't reproduce who cares
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