That shut the old windbag up!

[Lars-E]

She was called the Iron Lady. Reminds me of Lord Protector, although her rule was not ironfist; The brits are democratic

Magna Charta; Which was more about ppl rights/voting etc? Earliest of it's kind in the world?

Sidenote, despite Britains imperial past or as an effect thereof; They managed to spread the good news all around. Surpassing the early fervent Irish missionaires who went 'everywhere'.

Maggie was just a conservative in the 'right' wing fraction of the Tory party. Tony Blair is also conservative by Scandinavian standards.

I think the leaning of the socialdemocratic parties in Europe to the right the last decade is...

[DanS]

Bugs: She was very influential in restructuring the British economy, so that now, some years after she was in office, it is on a strong footing. Also, she was a hard-nosed lady, who knew what she was after. That engenders some respect.

That's what this American was thinking about.

Btw, I was no fan of Reagan when he was in office, but after the fact it's pretty easy to see that he was/is hugely influential.

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

Balls. The 1988 budget was the most suicidally inept piece of ecomonic planning I have ever seen, and it plunged Britain into a long recession.

[reds4ever]

the experience of leaving school and looking for non-existant work in 1986 is probally the reason why i am a socialist now. I forgive Blair a lot of his failings because I can remember what it used to be like working in manufacturing in the north of britain. you only have to look at the music of the time to realize how unpopular she was with young people (The Jam, The Redskins, Billy Bragg and the rest of Red Wedge). I could n't believe it when Kinnock didn't get into office, how much worse did the country have to get before she was thrown out??

oh, and see she took my free school milk away!!!

MAGGIE THATCHER - MILK SNATCHER!!!

[Guynemer]

Off to the Fletcher Memorial Home For Colonial Wasters Of Life And Limb with her!

Err... um... sorry... been listening to quite a bit of Pink Floyd recently.

[DinoDoc]

Could someone explain to me the reasoning behind the poll tax BFB mentioned? The US banned such taxes decades ago.

[KrazyHorse]

Own Goal?

Maggie Thatcher was an evil ***** bent on on turning back the hands of time a century or so.

[Alexander's Horse]

Hey Case - Dominic (3) likes your parrot.

[Case]

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
Hey Case - Dominic (3) likes your parrot.

Thanks. I got it via a Google image search

I'm a sucker for parrots with big black eyes.

(oh, and I stole the concept from PH )

[*End Is Forever*]

DinoDoc,

Could someone explain to me the reasoning behind the poll tax BFB mentioned?

The poll tax replaced the "rates" - a tax collected by local councils, to (in theory) pay for local services, such as refuse collection, social services and suchlike. The rates were charged per household (I think - can anyone help me out here?), and there's no doubt that they required substantial reform. However, Thatcher's alternative was the "community charge". It was subsequently nicknamed the "poll tax" because the electoral register was used to determine collection. Unfortunately, the poll tax was ridiculously regressive - effectively the "prince" and the "pauper" were paying exactly the same amount in poll tax. This, amongst other things, led to a whole generation of people who took "can't pay, won't pay" completely literally.

On Thatcher's fall from grace, new DTI minister Michael Heseltine drew up a quick list of things which could replace the doomed community charge, and the result was the "council tax" paid on homes to this day.

Alex,

The 1988 budget was the most suicidally inept piece of ecomonic planning I have ever seen, and it plunged Britain into a long recession.

Yes - but we're reaping the benefits of the earlier economic restructuring even today. As you've seen by my opinions on the poll tax, I quite agree that she lost it towards the end of her term in office.

Besides, I'd like to see what you think about Michael Foot's economic planning...

reds4ever,

I forgive Blair a lot of his failings because I can remember what it used to be like working in manufacturing in the north of britain

Thatcher's policies didn't exactly help northern manufacturing - but at least half of the decimated manufacturing was over-unionised and unproductive. The unions signed their own death certificate. If they hadn't created a culture of non-productivity, perhaps Thatcher wouldn't have been so opposed. In fact, I don't doubt that she wouldn't have been.

I'd also like to know what exactly Blair has done for "northern manufacturing"? Sweet **** all, that's the answer.

you only have to look at the music of the time to realize how unpopular she was with young people (The Jam, The Redskins, Billy Bragg and the rest of Red Wedge).

Oh yes, Billy Bragg, that well known "voice of youth"...

KH,

Maggie Thatcher was an evil ***** bent on on turning back the hands of time a century or so

Oh, how informative...

[TCO]

Originally posted by Provost Harrison


Oh piss off GP, I suppose you know all about what she has done for this country and how she angered millions and millions, and shafted them. Unless you have a clue what you are on about, get lost

Lub you too, baby.

[Adam Smith]

Baroness Thatcher was an embarrassing throwback to an earlier time, kept in power by:

1. The man on the streets need for a bully to 'keep all them damn foreigners in line'

I was in London in 1985 and saw a billboard in West Ham. It had swarthy, dirty looking foreigners in undershirts with flies buzzing about them, driving truckloads of cheap citrus fruit into England. The advertisement was paid for by Labor. I conclude from this that it was Labor playing the xenophobia card at the time. Comments?

[Provost Harrison]

Iain, Michael Foot is an interesting one. I don't know how he would have done running the country but apparently, his looks were quite deceptive as he was supposed to be a very intelligent man who could have potentially done a good job running the country. Of course this is mere speculation though.

But all this talk of Thatcher and Kinnock reminds me of Spitting Image. Why oh why did they axe it? Probably because it wasn't suitable for Blairs age of political correctness, although I think it did leaps and bounds towards exposing the real politics of this country

[Bereta_Eder]

tell me true tell me why was Jesus crucified
is it for this that daddy died?
was it for you? was it me?
did i watch too much t.v.?
is that a hint of accusation in your eyes?
if it wasn't for the nips
being so good at building ships
the yards would still be open on the clyde
and it can't be much fun for them
beneath the rising sun
with all their kids committing suicide
what have we done maggie what have we done
what have we done to england
should we shout should we scream
'what happened to the post war dream?'
oh maggie maggie what have we done?

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

Dinodoc-

Iain's answer outlines the nuts and bolts of Poll Tax, but the reality went much deeper. It replaced Council rates, by which people paid a charge loosely based on the value of their property to fund local governmental expenditure.

Thatcher's opinion on this was predictable. Why should people pay more just because they happen to live in large, comfortable homes?

So Poll Tax was dreamed up. Like all of Thatcher's policies it had a certain brutal logic to it. Every local authority had to meet it's expenses through a charge on individual, not on property. Every wage earner paid the same in that local area. Under Thatcherite logic, that's fair.

The first sting in the tail was that local authorities with greater problems such as decaying infratstructures, crumbling buildings, social problems, inevitably had bigger bills. That meant that people living in poor Urban areas paid bills that could be (and were) three times the size of those paid by those living in rich, leafy suburbs, or affluent inner-city wards in the groovy bits of London. That fitted in nicely with Thatcherism in general- the rich get richer while the poor get poorer.

The second sting in the tail was that every adult paid something. Even if you had no income otherthan state benefits, you still paid 20% of the bill. Even if you were a student. Even if you were an old-age pensioner on £3000 a year in state pension, you still paid. It wasn't deducted from your benefits, either. You had to physically collect your benefits from the local DHSS Stalag, then physically pay a chunk back. It defies every logic except Thatcherite logic, where it was the principle of everyone paying (even the dole-scum that Thatcher just loathed) that was important. It was an imperious gesture aimed at the underclasses. "You shall pay even if you have no money".

The third sting in the tail was that the only way to avoid paying was to "disappear". If you could not, or would not, pay your only alternative was to disappear from the electoral register. Many did- which meant they were disenfranchised and became "non-persons". Naturally, the areas in which this happened the most were in the poorest areas with the highest bills- which are the areas where the Tories had least support. Poll Tax had the effect (which couldn't have escaped Thatcher) that it would reduce the number of Labour votes at the next election.

The final insult? Best summed up in the Julian Cope in his poll tax song "Leperskin", in which he states "The man in Lambeth Palace pays the same rate as a man who owns a flat in Acre Lane".

It was the crowning glory of Thatcherite logic. However it all went horribly wrong. When it was introduced there was widespread rioting by normally law-abiding people. I take great pride in the fact that I was a rioter myself (fortunately there were no CCTV cameras in those days to record who assisted in a break-in to a certain council office. Through the picture widows. With a concrete bollard). It destroyed Thatcher's support and she was booted out of office as a direct result.

That's one of the bigger reasons why she is so hated in Britain.