Global Warming does not exist

[KrazyHorse]

Part of me really hopes global warming is happening. We could use it (current models predict higher average temps for Canada) and we've got something like half the freshwater in the world, so we won't be achin' for it like some people will...

Screw the rest of you. I'm breaking out the beach towel.

[Urban Ranger]

It is of course happening.

[Urban Ranger]

DarkCloud,

I don't have my figures on hand, so we will have to go back to them later. One thing to remember is climatic changes are hard to predict since it is definitely non-linear. An increase of one degree can mean a massive shift in climatic patterns. There is already indication that the Atlantic Conveyor Belt is weakening.

The Antarctic ice cap is melting at an unprecedented rate already

[ZoboZeWarrior]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
Part of me really hopes global warming is happening. We could use it (current models predict higher average temps for Canada) and we've got something like half the freshwater in the world, so we won't be achin' for it like some people will...

Screw the rest of you. I'm breaking out the beach towel.

Global warning doesn't mean warning everywhere. The average temp will be warmer. Put some spot could be colder !!

Put back your sun glass and wear your raincoat !!!

[Dis]

what bothers me about this thread is people accept global warming as fact because the EPA says so. The EPA had their own interpretation of the presidential commission results anyways.

And then you have the presidential commission. They put out their results. They are entitled to that. What needs to happen next is peer review by the scientific community. Essentually someone needs to prove them wrong. Aside from a few people like John Christy, this hasn't happen. This is part of the scientific process. Did people just believe Einstein when he put out E=mc2? No, they tested the equation and research.

I don't have much to add about global warming. But you guys are smart. You shouldn't blindly accept what some presidential commission tells you. This is not how "real" science works. They may be smart, but their work needs to be verified.

And I do support most EPA causes. I do think CO2 emmission needs to be curtailed. But I really hate it when these alarmist tell us the world is going to end. The world is going nowhere. Worst case scenario global warming occurs. Well then we will have to adjust. We will live in different areas.

What's really funny is these "green" supporters that still drive cars and suv's at that. The only way to solve the problem of global warming if it is happening is go back to the stone age. Don't these people get it? That means no electricity, no cell phones, you get the picture.

Another view if you will. You guys need to look at the long range plan. The earth's population is increasing. And the oil will eventually run out. No small increase in gas mileage is going compensate for this. Drastic measure would be needed to curtail future increases in energy consumption. And yes that would entail living in a virtual stone age. Either that or find energy sources that don't release green house gasses . People act like we will be living the same way in 200 years. I doubt fossil fuel burning will be the primary source of energy.

So because of that above paragraph and others. I don't give a f*ck about global warming. It may be occurring but it isn't that bad. Humans will adjust. Crops may fail, people in third world countries may die, but that is happening already, and has happened many times in the past. Aids is more a threat to third world countries than global warming. I say cure aids then worry about global warming.

So this is what I think about global warming

[mactbone]

I wonder if this correlates to the Medieval Global Warming?

Here's an article on Medieval Global Warming

http://www.co2science.org/subject/e/summaries/europemwp.htm

Medieval Warm Period -- Europe -- Summary
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Was there really a Medieval Warm Period in Europe? To cut to the end of the story, there certainly was. But let's take a little time in getting there and review some of the evidence for that contention.
Based on analyses of subfossil wood samples from the Khibiny mountains on the Kola Peninsula of Russia, Hiller et al. (2001) were able to reconstruct a 1500-year history of alpine tree-line elevation. This record indicates that between A.D. 1000 and 1300, the tree-line there was located at least 100 to 140 meters above its current location. The researchers state that this fact implies a mean summer temperature that was "at least 0.8°C higher than today."

Moving from land to water, in a study of a well-dated sediment core from the Bornholm Basin in the southwestern Baltic Sea, Andren et al. (2000) found evidence for a period of high primary production at approximately A.D. 1050. Many of the diatoms of that period were warm water species that the scientists say "cannot be found in the present Baltic Sea." This balmy period, they report, "corresponds to the time when the Vikings succeeded in colonizing Iceland and Greenland." The warmth ended rather abruptly, however, at about A.D. 1200, when there was "a major decrease in warm water taxa in the diatom assemblage and an increase in cold water taxa" that are characteristic of what they call the Recent Baltic Sea Stage, which still prevails to this day.

Mikalsen et al. (2001) likewise made detailed measurements of a number of properties of sedimentary material extracted from the bottom of a fjord on the west coast of Norway, deriving a relative temperature history of the region that spanned the last five millennia. This record revealed the existence of a period stretching from A.D. 1330 to 1600 that, in their words, "had the highest bottom-water temperatures in Sulafjorden during the last 5000 years."

In eastern Norway, Nesje et al. (2001) analyzed a sediment core obtained from Lake Atnsjoen, deriving a 4500-year record of river flooding. They observed "a period of little flood activity around the Medieval period (A.D. 1000-1400)," which was followed by "a period of the most extensive flood activity in the Atnsjoen catchment," which resulted from the "post-Medieval climate deterioration characterized by lower air temperature, thicker and more long-lasting snow cover, and more frequent storms associated with the 'Little Ice Age'."

Moving to Switzerland, Filippi et al. (1999) analyzed a sediment core extracted from Lake Neuchatel in the western Swiss Lowlands. During this same transition from the Medieval Warm Period (MWP) to the Little Ice Age (LIA), they detected a drop of approximately 1.5°C in mean annual air temperature. To give some context to this finding, they say that "the warming during the 20th century does not seem to have fully compensated the cooling at the MWP-LIA transition." And to make the message even more clear, they add that during the Medieval Warm Period, the mean annual air temperature was "on average higher than at present."

Rounding out our mini-review of the Medieval Warm Period in Europe, Bodri and Cermak (1999) derived individual ground surface temperature histories from the temperature-depth logs of 98 separate boreholes drilled in the Czech Republic. From these data they detected "the existence of a medieval warm epoch lasting from A.D. 1100-1300," which they describe as "one of the warmest postglacial times." Noting that this spectacular warm period was followed by the Little Ice Age, they suggest that "the observed recent warming may thus be easily a natural return of climate from the previous colder conditions back to a 'normal'."

That Filippi et al. (1999) share similar views is demonstrated by their citing of Keigwin (1996) to the effect that "sea surface temperature (SST) reconstructions show that SST was ca. 1°C cooler than today about 400 years ago and ca. 1°C warmer than today during the MWP." Citing Bond et al. (1997), they further note that the MWP and LIA are just the most recent manifestations of "a pervasive millennial-scale coupled atmosphere-ocean climate oscillation," which, we might add, has absolutely nothing to do with variations in the air's CO2 content.

The story from Europe thus seems quite clear. There was a several-hundred-year period in the first part of the last millennium that was significantly warmer than it is currently, contrary to the claim of the climate alarmists that the warmth of that time was nothing special. In addition, there is reason to believe that the planet may be on a natural climate trajectory that is taking it back to a state reminiscent of the Medieval Warm Period, which we could probably call the Modern Warm Period. And there is nothing we can do about it ... but reap the benefits!

References
Andren, E., Andren, T. and Sohlenius, G. 2000. The Holocene history of the southwestern Baltic Sea as reflected in a sediment core from the Bornholm Basin. Boreas 29: 233-250.

Bodri, L. and Cermak, V. 1999. Climate change of the last millennium inferred from borehole temperatures: Regional patterns of climatic changes in the Czech Republic - Part III. Global and Planetary Change 21: 225-235.

Bond, G., Showers, W., Cheseby, M., Lotti, R., Almasi, P., deMenocal, P., Priori, P., Cullen, H., Hajdes, I. and Bonani, G. 1997. A pervasive millennial-scale climate cycle in the North Atlantic: The Holocene and late glacial record. Science 278: 1257-1266.

Filippi, M.L., Lambert, P., Hunziker, J., Kubler, B. and Bernasconi, S. 1999. Climatic and anthropogenic influence on the stable isotope record from bulk carbonates and ostracodes in Lake Neuchatel, Switzerland, during the last two millennia. Journal of Paleolimnology 21: 19-34.

Hiller, A., Boettger, T. and Kremenetski, C. 2001. Medieval climatic warming recorded by radiocarbon dated alpine tree-line shift on the Kola Peninsula, Russia. The Holocene 11: 491-497.

Keigwin, L.D. 1996. The Little Ice Age and Medieval Warm Period in the Sargasso Sea. Science 174: 1504-1508.

Mikalsen, G., Sejrup, H.P. and Aarseth, I. 2001. Late-Holocene changes in ocean circulation and climate: foraminiferal and isotopic evidence from Sulafjord, western Norway. The Holocene 11: 437-446.

Nesje, A., Dahl, S.O., Matthews, J.A. and Berrisford, M.S. 2001. A ~ 4500-yr record of river floods obtained from a sediment core in Lake Atnsjoen, eastern Norway. Journal of Paleolimnology 25: 329-342.

[KrazyHorse]

Global warning doesn't mean warning everywhere. The average temp will be warmer. Put some spot could be colder !!

Put back your sun glass and wear your raincoat !!!

Yeah, but I already mentioned that Canada is actually supposed to be the region that gets the most global warming under the current model (+4C compared to +1.5C globally, IIRC).

France, on the other hand, is going to go into the deep freeze. Right where it belongs.

[TCO]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger
DarkCloud,

I don't have my figures on hand, so we will have to go back to them later. One thing to remember is climatic changes are hard to predict since it is definitely non-linear. An increase of one degree can mean a massive shift in climatic patterns. There is already indication that the Atlantic Conveyor Belt is weakening.

The Antarctic ice cap is melting at an unprecedented rate already

I just read a Science article which said thart the Antarctic ice cap is not in danger of catastrophic melting. It was written by pro-GWers. And they made sure to put in plenty of caveats. But their research argued against dangers of losing the ice shelf. Was very interesting and well done piece.

[TCO]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
Part of me really hopes global warming is happening. We could use it (current models predict higher average temps for Canada) and we've got something like half the freshwater in the world, so we won't be achin' for it like some people will...

Screw the rest of you. I'm breaking out the beach towel.

widdle kitty at the beach...

[faded glory]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse

Global warning doesn't mean warning everywhere. The average temp will be warmer. Put some spot could be colder !!

Put back your sun glass and wear your raincoat !!!

Yeah, but I already mentioned that Canada is actually supposed to be the region that gets the most global warming under the current model (+4C compared to +1.5C globally, IIRC).

France, on the other hand, is going to go into the deep freeze. Right where it belongs.

Are you sure? Isnt it the gulf stream that keeps islands like Prince Edward and Nova Scotia habitable? (sorry my geograhpy is messed up. But the islands off your eastern coast!)

[ZoboZeWarrior]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
to go into the deep freeze. Right where it belongs.

North of France will have colder winter for sure ...
South of France will not be so affected due to Meditarean sea.
The main problem are coastal cities ... everywhere.

Since can predict what we will lose, but not what we will gain.

--- I've just heard that a big piece of ice (as large as luwembourd or larger) is broken from antartic due to a warmer climat.

Global Warming still doesn't exist ?

[MOBIUS]

Global Warming is here!

I suggest a visit to Biosphere 2 in Arizona to change your tunes on Global Warming!

http://www.bio2.edu/

I was privileged enough to be on the new 'under the glass' tours where you can actually now go inside instead of just gawping in from the outside - the place is truly amazing!

Global warming is here and in a big way, but it's true potential is being hidden by the ability of trees to act as natural 'carbon sinks' and this has been proved by increasing the CO2 in the rainforest section in a controlled and completely isolated experiment...

Trees are current absorbing much of the CO2 produced by man, but they reckon that under current predicted CO2 production they will become 'saturated' within 40 years and the effects of CO2 will explode exponentially!

Worse still is the alarming rate that the World's forests are being cut down - we are literally burning the candle at both ends!

I went there being 99% convinced of global warming - now I am 100% completely convinced!

Kill all SUV owners now!

[mactbone]

Did anyone bother to read the article I posted, which said that we are actually still colder than Europe was during the middle ages? You know, Scandinavians growing crops, and all that?

[Wraith]

--"and the distribution of food already doesn't work"

Yes, I did mention that. Which is why I don't see any increase in wars or unrest, since it's already an issue.

--"Certainly. And Humanity survived, somehow."

And many of those changes happened before humanity was ever around...

Please stop with the war and unrest talk. It's silly. We're humans, we've been bashing each other with rocks ever since we figured out opposable thumbs. We have too many excuses already for this to be a big factor. There are plenty of other historical and social reasons for the levels of conflict we've seen.

--"It is of course happening."

That thread's amusing, too. Adam Smith answered it pretty well, but forgot to mention that the icepack in question was on the edge of the antarctic circle, and was expected to break off anyway (it's only the speed that was interesting).
What's more amusing is the sensationalist press that's sprung up around this. The original (I think) BBC article is pretty decent. Then we get The Guardian, which seems to have problems with zeros, since they changed 500 billion to 500 million billion. As did Reuters. Even The Independent was able to get the number of zeros right, although I can't say much positive for the rest of their article.

Ahh, sensationalism.

--"And then you have the presidential commission. They put out their results"

Would you happen to know the name of that commission? Osweld isn't answering, so maybe someone can.

--"Global Warming still doesn't exist ?"

You still believe everything you hear? It's amazing how much people decide on this based on What Some Bloke in the Pub Told Me.

--"I suggest a visit to Biosphere 2 in Arizona to change your tunes on Global Warming!"

Are there any links in particular on that site we should look for? I'm curious as to how a biodome is supposed to provide evidence for global warming, since by definition it is an experiment involving studying a section of the planet cut off from the rest of the climate.

--"I went there being 99% convinced of global warming"

Soka... I get it now.

--"Did anyone bother to read the article I posted"

Heh. Why would they do that?

Wraith
"Faith is that faculty in men that enables us to believe things that we know are untrue."
-- ("Nosferatu")

[WhiteElephants]

Re: Global Warming is here!

Originally posted by MOBIUS
Trees are current absorbing much of the CO2 produced by man, but they reckon that under current predicted CO2 production they will become 'saturated' within 40 years and the effects of CO2 will explode exponentially!

That's just rubbish. How on Earth can you predict what the world will be doing in 40 years? You can't. You can only speculate given the current trends and technologies, which are inevitable to change.

Anyone know the name of that bozo running around in the 60's saying that in 50 years there'd be no oil? What about the wise guys who said Lake Erie was dead? What I'm tyring to demonstrate is that you simply can't know. You can guess, you can speculate, you can call up the Physic Network, you can fear monger, but you simply can't know. Consider that fact that if you told someone in the 1850's that there'd be 6 billion people on the Earth they'd more than likely believe there'd be a shortage of horses used as transportation because they had no way of foreseeing the invention of the automobile.