I need to read "What is the best MBT?" thread.

[MichaeltheGreat]

When you get down to the engineering of it, the T-34 was ****. It had some innovative design features (sloped armor and suspension), but the overall fightability of the tank was abysmal - the T-34 dominated from being heavier armed and armored at first, and speed and numbers against an enemy stretched too thin later on, but T-34 losses and crew fatalities were horribly high.

In the early models, the turret was floorless, so the loader and gunner had to reposition themselves as the turret traversed - and if the loader wasn't careful or the gunner not communicative, the breech recoil could be fatal to the loader in a number of firing positions.

Buttoned up visibility was extremely poor, ammo storage layout was poor, there was little to no room for the extent of radio sets common to US and later British tanks, gunsight optics were abysmal and prone to damage, etc.

The T-34 fit the Soviet doctrine and willingness to incur casualties very well, but it was not a good fit for anyone else.

[MattHiggs]

No..... it's too late, you fools don't know what you've released - we're all doomed!

*runs*

[Alexander's Horse]

The reason cav or military background doesn't help is they start getting into techno babble - which everyone should ignore because its meaningless .

I notice MTG has started down that path.

Yes Mike, the dominant tank of its era was a piece of crap

[Lefty Scaevola]

Now for pre ww2 tanks, how does the Czech Pz38 stand up against the Soviet BT7?

[steelehc]

I'm suprised. No one has mentioned my favorites:
Mark 1, JS-3, KV-2, Maus, M-26 Pershing, M-46 Patton, M60A3 (first to use reactive armor), and ther Leopard 3 (casemate turret version).

These are, in my opinion, the most interesting tanks ever built, even if they are not all MBTs (Heavy tanks, anyone?), and even though others may be better in some way or another.

Steele

[ravagon]

Originally posted by steelehc
I'm suprised. No one has mentioned my favorites:
Mark 1, JS-3, KV-2, Maus, M-26 Pershing, M-46 Patton, M60A3 (first to use reactive armor), and ther Leopard 3 (casemate turret version).

I'm surprised noone has mentioned the Bob Semple. Might not be much in the way of a superior AFV but there's nothing finer if you want a field plowed.

Damn, now where's that link ...

[Dr Strangelove]

During WWII the suitability of a tank's design for mass production was also a factor in a particular tank's contribution to the overall combat ability of the army. In this respect the T-34 had an advantage over the German tanks, it could be made in larger numbers at a lesser cost.

[The Mad Monk]

I like the way the tank in Civ III bounces on its treads while waiting for orders.

[steelehc]

I've never heard of the Bob Semple, but here's a pic of another "plow-tank". The M728-CEV

I hope this is close to what you were thinking of.

Steele

[Alexander's Horse]

Originally posted by Lefty Scaevola
Now for pre ww2 tanks, how does the Czech Pz38 stand up against the Soviet BT7?

Stood up pretty well. German tank production was surprisingly low before 1943/44 and they fleshed out their units with tanks captured from the Czechs (and the French for that matter). In many photos of the Germans rolling into Russia you can see Czech tanks. They were used extensively.

[Case]

Information on the Bob Semple Tank can be found here: http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/ (follow the link in the side bar to New Zealand)

Here's a picture of the thing:

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
The reason cav or military background doesn't help is they start getting into techno babble - which everyone should ignore because its meaningless .

I notice MTG has started down that path.

Yes Mike, the dominant tank of its era was a piece of crap

Well, when you put 900 of them into action against 150, and lose 700 wiping out that 150, but you've got 150 left and the other guy has none, yes, you could say it's "dominant"



That has nothing to do with the inherent quality of the vehicle.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Lefty Scaevola
Now for pre ww2 tanks, how does the Czech Pz38 stand up against the Soviet BT7?

The Skoda tanks were all around superior to the BT-7.

There were two models used in German service, the Pz-35t (exclusive to the 6th Panzer division), and the more common Pz-38t, which were initially allocated to six divisions, IIRC. The hull and running gear of the -38t were later used in other AT vehicles, including some Marder III variants and the Hetzer.

[sachmo71]

Originally posted by steelehc
I'm suprised. No one has mentioned my favorites:
Mark 1, JS-3, KV-2, Maus, M-26 Pershing, M-46 Patton, M60A3 (first to use reactive armor), and ther Leopard 3 (casemate turret version).

These are, in my opinion, the most interesting tanks ever built, even if they are not all MBTs (Heavy tanks, anyone?), and even though others may be better in some way or another.

Steele

I think the most interesting tank was the Russian KV-12(?). It has 4 cannons, or somesuch. I don't want to have to load up Steel Panthers to figure it out! Anyway, they were slow and were used for target pratice, but if it hit something, it could kill it!

[steelehc]

Well, when you put 900 of them into action against 150, and lose 700 wiping out that 150, but you've got 150 left and the other guy has none, yes, you could say it's "dominant"

Don't you mean 200 left, MTG?
900-700=200, right?

Other then that glaring flaw, I wholeheartedly agree with you judgement. The T-34 was well-designed, but very poorly made. It was rushed (much as in civ...), and thusly was built very cheaply and poorly, with flawed materials.

Steele