I need to read "What is the best MBT?" thread.

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat
From a technological standpoint, the Panzer IV series is it - the only prewar design to go all the way through the war, and there are more features in modern MBTs that originated with the Panzer IV than with any WW2 or earlier tank.

The T-34 was a pre-war design and although the first tanks rolled off the assembly lines after the war had started, the T-34 was in operation by the time the Russians started fighting.

IIRC, the Panzer IV was kept in production because the Germans had no choice. They needed it to fill the gap until production of the newer tanks came up to speed.

As for design features used in modern tanks, I'd say the T-34 would be considered more a grandfather: sloping armour, Christie suspension. But I could be wrong on this point. What features from the Panzer IV are incorporated in modern tank design?

[Case]

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
Yes, the T34 had nice suspension too.

(thanks to good piece of early Soviet espionage)

I thought that the Americans sold the Christie tank to the Soviets

[Alexander's Horse]

Shut up

The tank on your avatar looks like a Churchill but I don't know. Moving right along....

[Geronimo]

Originally posted by Alexanders Horse
Especially since the T34 was acclaimed as the best tank of all time.

You're lucky the original thread is nowhere to be found AH

[Ming]

Originally posted by Geronimo
You're lucky the original thread is nowhere to be found AH

NO... we are all lucky

[Alexander's Horse]

Originally posted by Geronimo




You're lucky the original thread is nowhere to be found AH

Hey! Its Geronimo How are you?

Don't tell me you've been lurking for the past 2 years

[Saras]

I don't visit Apolyton much these days, so I'd appreciate if anyone could send me the archived mbt thread, if available, to sarunas.skyrius@hf.lt.

Saras

[Alexander's Horse]

You still got T34 tracks preserved in the mud of your beautiful country Saras?

[Drekkus]

Isn't there a standard way to measure performance in tanks? Or would that kill the discussion.

Question on Kursk, since I appear to be know less than some others. In what way was airsuperiority a factor in that battle? Who had it and did it play a decisive rol?

[Paul Hanson]

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
Shut up

The tank on your avatar looks like a Churchill but I don't know. Moving right along....

The tank in Case's avatar in an AC1 Sentinel.

It worries me that I know that.

[Case]

Originally posted by Paul Hanson
The tank in Case's avatar in an AC1 Sentinel.

It worries me that I know that.

Correct - did you play the scenario
(improved, winnable version coming out soon)

[sachmo71]

Originally posted by Drekkus
Isn't there a standard way to measure performance in tanks? Or would that kill the discussion.

Question on Kursk, since I appear to be know less than some others. In what way was airsuperiority a factor in that battle? Who had it and did it play a decisive rol?

Funny you should mention that, Drekkus. Neither side was able to establish air superiority, and the pilots of the ground attack aircraft had a hard time distinguishing friend from foe in some of the larger engagements.

[Drekkus]

Originally posted by sachmo71

Funny you should mention that, Drekkus. The Sturmovicks made quite an impact on the Germans at Kursk.

But was it a decisive factor? What was the state of the luftwaffe at that stage? What I mean to say is: can the outcome of the battle of Kursk be attributed to the quality of the tanks involved?

[sachmo71]

Sorry Drekkus, I edited my post and I think it answers your question. There were losses on both sides, but with neither side being able to gain superiority, I don't think it was a decisive factor.
The most decisive factors at Kursk were intelligence and defense in depth.
The Russians knew where the Germans were going to attack. In fact, thanks to a German defector, they knew when the Germans were going to attack.
The Russians created a huge network of tank traps and mines before the battle. They also concentrated huge amounts of artillery on this front, and pounded the Germans at their assembly points. Even with all of this, it was a close thing. The Germans almost broke thru, but the Russian's layered defense stopped them cold. If the enemy knows you are coming, and is ready for you, AND has numerical superiority...it doesn't really matter who has the better tank. You will most likely lose.

[sachmo71]

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