Questions for creationists

[Jack_www]

One more last though, before such a debate is restarted it would be important the each side laid out the basic outline of what they proposed happen. This way both sides are clear on were the other side stands. I can see that there have been missunderstandings of what is the position of the other side.

[Ethelred]

Re: Some final thougts

Originally posted by Jack_www
First off, Jehovah's Witnesses do not claim to be prefect and freely admit their mistakes. Members have sometimes though the end was near, but was never official teaching of Jehovah's Witnesses.

It was published in official Watchtower works. They have hidden the mistakes from you apparently.

It WAS an official teaching FIVE different times.

Statements made in OFFICIAL Watchtower publications:

1914 "Let us remember that this date limit - A.D. 1914 - must not only witness the completion of the selection and trial and glorification of the entire body of Christ, but it may also witness the purifying of some of that larger company of consecrated believers." {TKIC 364} ["must not" changed to "may not" in {TKIC 1915 ed 364}, the expected events having not happened]

1914 "The 'Time of the End', a period of one hundred and fifteen (115) years, from A.D. 1799 to A.D. 1914, is particularly marked in the Scriptures." {TKIC 1923 ed 23}

1914 "we present proofs that the setting up of the kingdom of God is already begun .. and that the 'battle of the great day of God Almighty' (Rev. 16: 14) which shall end in A.D. 1914 with the complete overthrow of earth's present rulership .. The gathering of the armies is plainly visible from the standpoint of God's word." {TIAH 101} [TIAH 1915 ed contains '1915' instead of '1914']

1925 "We understand that the jubilee type began to count in 1575 B.C.; and the 3,500 year period embracing the type must end in 1925.. It follows, then, that the year 1925 will mark the beginning of the restoration of all things lost by Adam's disobedience." {WT Nov 1 1922 346}

1925 "The year 1925 is a date definitely and clearly marked in Scriptures, even more clearly than that of 1914" {WT 1924 211}

1925 "Our thought is, that 1925 is definitely settled by the scriptures. As to Noah, the Christian now has much more upon which to base his faith than Noah had upon which to base his faith in a coming deluge." {WT Apr 1 1923 106}



What do you call official Jack? That stuff is in official publications.

Blood transfusions are not without risks. And because of this there are many who do not want blood transfusions because of this. I think Ethelred that you have missunderstood the teaching of Jehovah's Witnesses, but cant really tell for sure.

Risks have nothing to do with and you know it. Its a requirement of your religion on PURELY religious grounds. Dying from loss of blood is not a risk its a reality and many JW's have done that.

I may be misunderstanding some details but I think I am havn't got much wrong. You have yet to show any errors. You have merely asserted I was wrong and as far as I can tell its because you have had the truth hidden from you.

Did you even know about the stuff from 1975 before this Jack? If you didn't why would that have been hidden from you?

I wont deny that living things change. I also have not tried to evade the flying squirrels issue.

Well thats the first time you have even acknowledged that I brought it up.

There are many things that I have hard time believing could have happened. How could self-reproducing molecules become "alive?"

Life isn't magic its just chemistry. By reproducing itself it becomes alive.

How could they become some sort of DNA then to cell?

Not knowing all the answers is not evidence of god.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of god. Not when the lack of evidence is wholy understandable due to vast time since life began.

Also even if the mutations occurred over a long period of time or all at once, how could they have all by chance get the right mutations to produce life as we know it today,

Shuffle a deck of cards. How the heck did those cards come out exactly that way? Why the odds are staggering. God must have made them come out that way.

Life didn't have to come out the way it did. Like the deck of cards however it came out is how it came out. There was no destiny that we would exist.

You are looking through the wrong end of a telescope.

to me it seems that natural selection would only weed out bad mutations and even this would not be make it a sure thing. This seems impossible, the odds too great.

Little is a completely sure thing. It may be that LIFE was a sure thing. No one knows yet. But the life we see today is merely a matter of how things worked out. It could be very different today. If one bollide had not struck Chixiluba 65 million years ago there might be a dinosaur at the keyboard instead of a mammal. There might be no keyboard.

Why do you think you have to be? Its just an accident. The world came out the way it did because it didn't turn out a different way. Just as that shuffled deck of cards.

Seems more reasonable to me that life was created, not that it somehow happened on its own. In addition, there are the physical laws of the Universe, were did these come form?

Where did god come from?

You evade that question just as you are again evading the squiralls.

However I allready touched on that one. Mathematic is where it came from perhaps. Perhaps not. One thing is for sure. If the the physical laws did not support life there would be no one around to ask why they don't. Universes without life never notice they are missing life.

There could have a google of universes before this one. This one has life.

Many scientists think that someone was behind these laws, but I will note most of them are not biologists.

Many go with the Anthropic priciple. The Universe we live in has laws that support life because if it didn't we wouldn't be able to ask and no one would be around to notice the universe did not support life. Its inherent that a universe with us in it must be able to support life. There is nothing surprising about it.

When the Universe was at single point of infinite density, were did the energy come from to get the Universe to start to expand, and to be still expanding today?

No one knows. Inflation theory covers one possible cause, however that theory has problems at present.

The Universe is also highly organized, lots of energy was needed to put the Universe and all the matter into this state, were did it come form? To me the most reasonable answer would be that a creator is behind it.

You are mistaken. The univers is highly UNorganized and heavilly chaotic. The major oganizing force in the Universe is gravity. It does it all on its own and there is no need to hypothesize a creator that has even greater organization and zero evidence to support it.

Times like this is were I wish I was a biologist, then I could research this subject on my own and look at the evidence directly, instead of having to really on other people.

Well you can but you would have to stop being a JW.

Have YOU ever heard of a JW scientist. I havn't. I don't think there are any. Scientists ask questions and JWs that ask too many questions are ostricized.

Each day I can see even more clearly that, I have still a lot to learn. I am also going to do some more research into this subject. Well I think that I am done with this subject for now. To really debate this with someone I need to do more research.

That I do agree with. Its why I gave you the links I did.

I am not a biologist; most of my knowledge of science lies in the field of physics, not life sciences. This is not an attempt to evade anything, but I really need to be more prepared and more knowledge when arguing this subject. Knowledge never hurt anyone. Maybe in the future we could start this up again and get someone to judge, like there would be in a real debate. I think that would be neat if we could pull it off.

I am not a biologist. Haven't even taken a course. You can learn by going to the library and the Scientific American is a big help better than the library since science is a moving target.

Learning can be a good thing. Just be prepared to be an ex-JW should you go that route. You will be cut off from every one you know. That is how the JW's hold onto its members even when they have had so many failed prophecies. Its no fun losing your family however it happens.

[-=Vagrant=-]

Maybe I was/am on jack_www's ignore list, because he didn't answer my questions? Oh well, no creationist of anykind has ever answered them.

[Ethelred]

Everyone is on Jack's ignore list. Haven't you noticed that he is JW as in Jack www. His name is no coincidence. He isn't allowed to discuss things with us if is unable to persuade us. You see if you are not a JW you're a minion of Satan and will be killed in the soon to coming Armeggedon. Thats the whole human race.

Did you notice that he claimed I didn't understand but he didn't actualy show what the truth was? Thats because I TOLD the truth and he was uncomfortable with it.

Don't feel like he was just ignoring you anyway. He never answered my questions either. He evaded them every time.

I AM on Zelots ignore list. Officially. I replied to him anyway because I don't like letting nonsense go just because he doesn't want to hear the truth.

[Jack_www]

Originally posted by Ethelred
Everyone is on Jack's ignore list. Haven't you noticed that he is JW as in Jack www. His name is no coincidence. He isn't allowed to discuss things with us if is unable to persuade us. You see if you are not a JW you're a minion of Satan and will be killed in the soon to coming Armeggedon. Thats the whole human race.

Did you notice that he claimed I didn't understand but he didn't actualy show what the truth was? Thats because I TOLD the truth and he was uncomfortable with it.

Don't feel like he was just ignoring you anyway. He never answered my questions either. He evaded them every time.

I AM on Zelots ignore list. Officially. I replied to him anyway because I don't like letting nonsense go just because he doesn't want to hear the truth.

I clearly see you hate Jehovah's Witnesses very much. You have turned this thread form a debate on weather or not life was created in how wrong religion, and then into how wrong Jehovah's Witnesses are. No one is on my ignore list. I have just been spending most of my time replying to what you have said Ethelred. I said that you misunderstood what I said.
I have no problems discussing things with people. I knew very well that I would most likely not be able to change any of your guy’s minds, and that was not my intent. I just wanted to share some of my thoughts on the subject and present some info that maybe you guys never looked at. My name I just picked it, and has nothing to do with Jehovah's Witnesses.

Part of the reason that I have not responded to all the posts is because I don’t have time to go through all the posts before more stuff gets posted. I am going to school and have a busy life.

Nothing was hidden form me. Like I said Jehovah's Witnesses don’t claim to be perfect and admit their mistakes and do not hide anything.

You make it seem that lots and lots of people have died because they have not accepted blood transfusions. That parents of Jehovah's Witnesses are cruel because they allow their children to die because they refuse blood transfusions.
Right now I don’t have time to go into this more because I am hungry and need to get something to eat, but before I make my last post in this thread I will go over the things you have gotten wrong about Jehovah's Witnesses.

[Ethelred]

Originally posted by Jack_www

I clearly see you hate Jehovah's Witnesses very much. You have turned this thread form a debate on weather or not life was created in how wrong religion, and then into how wrong Jehovah's Witnesses are.

Not hate. Disrespect. Its a lousy religion and it is the one that is into calling all others 'wolfish'. I haven't turned the thread at all. YOU have evaded the questions you have been asked. Even with all that evasion I have written far more on evolution than on anything else anyway.

No one is on my ignore list. I have just been spending most of my time replying to what you have said Ethelred. I said that you misunderstood what I said.

You ARE ignoring what we say. I never said you put us on an ignore list just that you were ignoring what we said. You do ignore what we say. You never deal with what we write you always picking a tangent to go onto.

You have now IGNORED the flying squirall three times in a row. Last time you claimed you didn't ignore that and that was the FIRST AND LAST reference you made to it. The only thing you have replied to directly was my ACCURATE remarks about your religion. Even then you only claimed I had misunderstood without trying to clear things up at all.

Since the only thing you respond to is remarks about the JWs then that is what you got.

I have no problems discussing things with people. I knew very well that I would most likely not be able to change any of your guy’s minds, and that was not my intent.

You never tried to discuss things. You evaded. You never tried to change minds. Its been made quite clear that you need evidence to do that. Where is some evidence?

I just wanted to share some of my thoughts on the subject and present some info that maybe you guys never looked at. My name I just picked it, and has nothing to do with Jehovah's Witnesses.

You didn't present anything I haven't seen before. Creationists just keep recycling the same stuff in new packaging.

As for you name. OK I will take your word on that. However you might think about your reasons. My bet its not a coincindence even if it wasn't a conscious decision.

Part of the reason that I have not responded to all the posts is because I don’t have time to go through all the posts before more stuff gets posted. I am going to school and have a busy life.

Nothing was hidden form me. Like I said Jehovah's Witnesses don’t claim to be perfect and admit their mistakes and do not hide anything.

Then you do know about the many false prophecies. How do you manage to keep with a religion that keeps blowing it and showing that it is not the one true way?

You make it seem that lots and lots of people have died because they have not accepted blood transfusions.

One child is one too many. I note that again you don't like what I say but you can't deny that it was true. If you don't like the truth being told perhaps you should quit the religion.

That parents of Jehovah's Witnesses are cruel because they allow their children to die because they refuse blood transfusions.

I never said cruel. I said its wrong. It is wrong. Causing death except in self-defense is wrong.

Right now I don’t have time to go into this more because I am hungry and need to get something to eat, but before I make my last post in this thread I will go over the things you have gotten wrong about Jehovah's Witnesses.

Please do. Show evidence. Give support. I supported EVERYTHING I said. You have merely expressed discontent. If you don't like the truth its time to go somewhere else than remain in a religion that you don't really respect. If you feel the truth sounds bad maybe it is a sign that you are in need of another way.

[Jack_www]

Re: Re: Some final thougts

Originally posted by Ethelred


It was published in official Watchtower works. They have hidden the mistakes from you apparently.

It WAS an official teaching FIVE different times.

Statements made in OFFICIAL Watchtower publications:

1914 "Let us remember that this date limit - A.D. 1914 - must not only witness the completion of the selection and trial and glorification of the entire body of Christ, but it may also witness the purifying of some of that larger company of consecrated believers." {TKIC 364} ["must not" changed to "may not" in {TKIC 1915 ed 364}, the expected events having not happened]

1914 "The 'Time of the End', a period of one hundred and fifteen (115) years, from A.D. 1799 to A.D. 1914, is particularly marked in the Scriptures." {TKIC 1923 ed 23}

1914 "we present proofs that the setting up of the kingdom of God is already begun .. and that the 'battle of the great day of God Almighty' (Rev. 16: 14) which shall end in A.D. 1914 with the complete overthrow of earth's present rulership .. The gathering of the armies is plainly visible from the standpoint of God's word." {TIAH 101} [TIAH 1915 ed contains '1915' instead of '1914']

1925 "We understand that the jubilee type began to count in 1575 B.C.; and the 3,500 year period embracing the type must end in 1925.. It follows, then, that the year 1925 will mark the beginning of the restoration of all things lost by Adam's disobedience." {WT Nov 1 1922 346}

1925 "The year 1925 is a date definitely and clearly marked in Scriptures, even more clearly than that of 1914" {WT 1924 211}

1925 "Our thought is, that 1925 is definitely settled by the scriptures. As to Noah, the Christian now has much more upon which to base his faith than Noah had upon which to base his faith in a coming deluge." {WT Apr 1 1923 106}



What do you call official Jack? That stuff is in official publications.



Risks have nothing to do with and you know it. Its a requirement of your religion on PURELY religious grounds. Dying from loss of blood is not a risk its a reality and many JW's have done that.

I may be misunderstanding some details but I think I am havn't got much wrong. You have yet to show any errors. You have merely asserted I was wrong and as far as I can tell its because you have had the truth hidden from you.

Did you even know about the stuff from 1975 before this Jack? If you didn't why would that have been hidden from you?



Well thats the first time you have even acknowledged that I brought it up.



Life isn't magic its just chemistry. By reproducing itself it becomes alive.



Not knowing all the answers is not evidence of god.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of god. Not when the lack of evidence is wholy understandable due to vast time since life began.



Shuffle a deck of cards. How the heck did those cards come out exactly that way? Why the odds are staggering. God must have made them come out that way.

Life didn't have to come out the way it did. Like the deck of cards however it came out is how it came out. There was no destiny that we would exist.

You are looking through the wrong end of a telescope.



Little is a completely sure thing. It may be that LIFE was a sure thing. No one knows yet. But the life we see today is merely a matter of how things worked out. It could be very different today. If one bollide had not struck Chixiluba 65 million years ago there might be a dinosaur at the keyboard instead of a mammal. There might be no keyboard.

Why do you think you have to be? Its just an accident. The world came out the way it did because it didn't turn out a different way. Just as that shuffled deck of cards.



Where did god come from?

You evade that question just as you are again evading the squiralls.

However I allready touched on that one. Mathematic is where it came from perhaps. Perhaps not. One thing is for sure. If the the physical laws did not support life there would be no one around to ask why they don't. Universes without life never notice they are missing life.

There could have a google of universes before this one. This one has life.




Many go with the Anthropic priciple. The Universe we live in has laws that support life because if it didn't we wouldn't be able to ask and no one would be around to notice the universe did not support life. Its inherent that a universe with us in it must be able to support life. There is nothing surprising about it.



No one knows. Inflation theory covers one possible cause, however that theory has problems at present.



You are mistaken. The univers is highly UNorganized and heavilly chaotic. The major oganizing force in the Universe is gravity. It does it all on its own and there is no need to hypothesize a creator that has even greater organization and zero evidence to support it.



Well you can but you would have to stop being a JW.

Have YOU ever heard of a JW scientist. I havn't. I don't think there are any. Scientists ask questions and JWs that ask too many questions are ostricized.




That I do agree with. Its why I gave you the links I did.



I am not a biologist. Haven't even taken a course. You can learn by going to the library and the Scientific American is a big help better than the library since science is a moving target.

Learning can be a good thing. Just be prepared to be an ex-JW should you go that route. You will be cut off from every one you know. That is how the JW's hold onto its members even when they have had so many failed prophecies. Its no fun losing your family however it happens.

Jehovah's Witnesses hold that 1914 marked the beginning if God's Kingdom and will soon put his rule here on the Earth. The 144,000 refers to those that will rule in heaven, but Jehovah's Witnesses believe that there is also great crowd, which we live here on the earth. I posted a link above but I don’t know if you read it. Here is anther link to look at.

http://www.watchtower.org/library/rq/article_06.htm

With blood, I was trying to say that people who are not Jehovah's Witnesses don’t want blood transfusions because of the risks involved. That is what I was trying to say, sorry for not being clear on this. I don’t know if you believe me when I say that there has been organ transplants with out blood. One case I read was in the Los Angeles Times, Jul 20, 1999, "'Bloodless' Transplant Saves Life."

You can look it up on www.latimes.com, but you have to pay for it. There are also many other treatments too.
Here is some info you can look at yourself.

http://www.watchtower.org/library/hb/index.htm?article=article_07.htm

http://www.watchtower.org/library/hb/index.htm?article=article_06.htm

The Bible says that God had no beginning that he has always existed. http://www.watchtower.org/library/rq...article_01.htm

Jehovah's Witnesses don’t discourage anyone form asking questions and answering those questions. This is my own personal experience. I have also not been afarid to answer people's questions when they ask me, and have done so. There are Jehovah Witnesses that come form all backgrounds and areas of life. There are Jehovah's Witnesses who are scientist. I know one personally that is a chemical engineer and use to believe that there was no God, and upheld this believe for a long time.

Like I said it was just some thoughts I had, and I want to do some research too show what I am saying has some support. I don’t know how much you know about science, but I have been studying physics for a year now, and plan on doing more study in this field. I know that there are many things that you don’t know about science, and how can you be sure gravity could organize the Universe? I could go into more detail, but before I do I want to back up what I say and make myself more knowledgeable in the subject. I am not afraid of what the facts will reveal, and why should I?

I would like to let you know that I do have access to database of scientific journals through the collage I go to. You seem to be very bias. I am willing to have an open mind when looking at the evidence, the facts; I ask if you truly are. In science you have to be objective and put your own personal feelings aside so that one can come to a correct conclusion based on the evidence. It sounds to me that you had a bad experience with Jehovah's Witnesses or something like that. But as I said I am tolerant of other people's views and beliefs.

[Jack_www]

One of the reasons why I also posted in this thread, is that I enjoy talking about this stuff and having and intelligent and stimulating disscusion. Why most people be so hostile? One thing we can all argee on I hope is that hating anther person for any reason, especially for the beliefs they hold is wrong. History is filled with many examples of this. It one of the very sad chapters in human history, and I dont think anyone here wants to be any part of that. Since we are getting no were, lets just agree to disagree.

[Jack_www]

Anther thing I want to do is to be clear on how you stand on evolution and how you say it happened. Many times you said that I have gotten it wrong, so please tell me how you view it as happening. If you would like I will go over this thread and try to respon to as many as the questions that have been raised as I can, I will try to address all the questions people have asked me so far. I will try and spend this weekend doing that, ok? I dont want to evade anything. I am not affarid of questions and answering them. I am sorry for ignoring lots of peoples posts, I did not mean too.

[Ethelred]

Jehovah's Witnesses hold that 1914 marked the beginning if God's Kingdom and will soon put his rule here on the Earth.

Thats what they say NOW. Not back then.

In case you havn't noticed we don't have God's Kingdom at all. Soon was in 1914 prior to 1914. They have been saying soon for a LONG time and the ORIGINAL date was specificly 1914, then another year and another a total of five times since the first failure.

I did ask for evidence not the present evasions. Post a quote from BEFORE 1914. The original version not the versions that were changed after 1914.

They made a prediction. They were sure. It was in official Watchtower publications. I posted some of them. Show what is wrong with them. With a real quote from 1914 or better yet earlier.

The 144,000 refers to those that will rule in heaven, but Jehovah's Witnesses believe that there is also great crowd, which we live here on the earth. I posted a link above but I don’t know if you read it.

In case you didn't notice it I COMMENTED ON THAT allready. I also noted that it in no way shows any mistake in my original remark. Its still only 144,000 going to heaven now isn't it? The rest get to stay here on Earth with the 5 billion corpses from Armageddon. Of course the 5 billion number is based on the so far wrong idea that Armegeddon is just around the corner.

I don’t know if you believe me when I say that there has been organ transplants with out blood.

I don't care. You know that has nothing to do with what I said. That innocent children of JW's have died because their parents refused to allow a transfusion on purely religious grounds.

Thats wrong. You can't justify it by bringing in things that aren't at all related.

The Bible says that God had no beginning that he has always existed.

Thats nice. It also says there was a worldwide flood covering the highest mountain. That flood never happened. So the Bible is not a accurate source for information on the creator it claims exists.

Jehovah's Witnesses don’t discourage anyone form asking questions and answering those questions. There are Jehovah Witnesses that come form all backgrounds and areas of life. There are Jehovah's Witnesses who are scientist. I know one personally that is a chemical engineer and use to believe that there was no God, and upheld this believe for a long time.

I have news for you. Chemical engineers are engineers not scientists. My father was a mechanical engineer. He was not a scientist.

Now chemists are often scientists. They are also often simply technicians with a degree in chemistry. Chemistry by the way is probably the safest area in science for fundamentalists. Except for the bio-chemists they can stick to stuff that doesn't touch on their beliefs.

I don’t know how much you know about science, but I have been studying physics for a year now, and plan on doing more study in this field

I have one year of college physics. I have read a lot more since but my talents in mathematics are abysmal.

I know that there are many things that you don’t know about science, and how can you be sure gravity could organize the Universe? I could go into more detail, but before I do I want to back up what I say and make myself more knowledgeable in the subject. I am not afraid of what the facts will reveal, and why should I?

I can be reasonably sure that gravity is the main organizing force in the unverse. Its the only long range attactive force and its attraction that organizes things. Neither I nor do most astro-physicists see any reason to think there is some mysterious creator messing around with things.

I would like to let you know that I do have access to database of scientific journals through the collage I go to. You seem to be very bias.

You seem to think that disagreeing with you constitutes bias. I am still waiting to see something resembling evidence from you. I am biased towards the provable and the supported. You don't have any support so I suppose it looks like a bias to you.

I am willing to have an open mind when looking at the evidence, the facts; I ask if you truly are. In science you have to be objective and put your own personal feelings aside so that one can come to a correct conclusion based on the evidence.

I agree. I am going on evidence. You aren't. My mind is open to EVIDENCE and reason. I haven't seen any evidence to support your positions. The creationists reason I have seen here is exceedingly flawed and you have not dealt with any rebuttal I have given. If there is no evidence and the logic is bad then it is not a sign of a closed mind to disagree with you.

Its a sign of a reasoning mind.

It sounds to me that you had a bad experience with Jehovah's Witnesses or something like that. But as I said I am tolerant of other people's views and beliefs.

I have had nearly no experiences whith JW's. They don't associate much with agnositics you know. I simply have learned enough about them over time that I don't see one good reason to like the religion.

In fact the sites I looked at the past two days lowered my allready bottom of the basement thoughts regarding them.

I could post the stuff about lying to non-believers. So far you have expressed a dislike with what I have said but you haven't showed any errors.

Remember EVIDENCE. Pleas without evidence and bad logic is not going to sway me in any way.

[Ethelred]

Originally posted by Jack_www
Why most people be so hostile? One thing we can all argee on I hope is that hating anther person for any reason, especially for the beliefs they hold is wrong.

How about I post some of the JW beliefs about non-believers. I love those tolerant remarks about 'wolfish' governments. Armegeddon is marvelously tolerant. With no one but JW's left alive then there won't be anyone to call satanic anymore.

I would like to commend you on your still being around. Your only the second JW to hang around after seeing the failed prophecies mentioned.

[Ethelred]

Originally posted by Jack_www
Anther thing I want to do is to be clear on how you stand on evolution and how you say it happened. Many times you said that I have gotten it wrong, so please tell me how you view it as happening.

I pointed out what was wrong. I gave links. I said what I think is happening. This is evidence that you don't really look at what I write. Except the stuff on the JW's.

If you want to go over particular things say what they are.

Not having enough time is a fully understandable reason for not dealing with everything. So stop trying. Only deal with what you feel you really must.

[Jack_www]

I just hope we can now focus on the issue at hand, weather or not evolution brougth life about, or was it created. I know I cant change your mind about religion, or Jehovah's Witnesses. So I will just let this be, is that ok with you? I would really like to focus on this subject. I hope at least with me Ethelred you have no hard feelings, even though you dont agree with me. I dont want to have any hard feelings with you, ok?

[Jack_www]

I just wanted to share some thoughts I have after spending some time going over objections people have to idea of creator.
Those that support this idea point to how complex life is, and how great odds are in occurring by chance and say because of this they believe that life was designed by someone Intelligent.

Others who oppose this view, say that first off that they really dont give a on theory on how life was created, in there view there is no way to test such ideas. They say the with theory of evolution model, that this can be tested by scientific method. They contend that they can observe it, and have showed how different genes could mutate to change the structure of living things and other proceses they say are involved in evolution.

Would you guys say this is correct statement?

[Ethelred]

Originally posted by Jack_www
I just hope we can now focus on the issue at hand, weather or not evolution brougth life about, or was it created.

You still don't understand evolution so no wonder you can't believe in it.

Evolution does NOT create life. Evolution is a change IN life. You can't have evolution till you have life. Biogenisis precedes evolution.

I know I cant change your mind about religion, or Jehovah's Witnesses.

Well if you had any evidence to support you would have chance.

So I will just let this be, is that ok with you? I would really like to focus on this subject. I hope at least with me Ethelred you have no hard feelings, even though you dont agree with me. I dont want to have any hard feelings with you, ok?

Fine by me.