Embargo on Cuba - Isn't it about time we drop this?

[Transcend]

Amnesty International is an annoying organizatio that tries to impose its euro-leftist ideology everwhere, and likes to stick its nose everywhere. But against the really evil guys like Al-Qaeda, they suddenly become silent.

I'm actually against economic embargos. They are ineffective, deprive us the means to intervene in the particular country, give dictators a common enemy for their people, and hurt our international reputation. In places where we didn't impose economic sanctions, such as Eastern Europe, former USSR, and China, the regimes have either already fallen or have moved into a direction more acceptable to us.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
The saddest part about the Cuba situation is that Castro was more a nationalist than a communist and when he took power he made overtures to the United States, including visiting the country. Unfortunately, people like VP Nixon and Edgar Hoover branded him a communist and a threat to the United States. This drove him into the arms of the Soviets.

Castro was a dedicated commie from the get-go, and Raul Castro and Guevara even moreso than Fidel, who was the more "flexible" of the three. However, given that the commie-hating red under every bed mainstream American media of the 1950's questioned what the hell we were doing in bed with the Bautista regime, the US blew an opportunity to have more influence in Cuba, because a lot of US businesses liked the old system and the old way of doing business.

BD - why should Castro "restore" seized property when that property was used in criminal acts by it's US corporate owners? It's well known, even beyond contradiction, that Fulgencio Bautista would sell any national resource or make any deal, so long as he and his designees received the appropriate kickbacks.

Bribery is a violation of US law, and the US takes the position that it's citizens, including corporations, are subject to US law regardless of their location.

So what if Castro's a dictator and a thug? So was Papa Doc Duvalier, Anastasio Somoza, Alfredo Stroessner, and a host of other Latinamerican leaders the US had never had any qualms dealing with.

[axi]

In all of BD's quotes I can't see anything special. Things like that can be reported for the US too. Hell, they can be reported for my country also. I didn't say that Cuba is heaven, but it isn't hell either. It has a Stalinist past, as every communist country has. Still it's far better than the "land of the free".

[Kyle]

Originally posted by axi
In all of BD's quotes I can't see anything special. Things like that can be reported for the US too. Hell, they can be reported for my country also. I didn't say that Cuba is heaven, but it isn't hell either. It has a Stalinist past, as every communist country has. Still it's far better than the "land of the free".

Better than the US?

[Ramo]

If Castro wants trade with the USA, he should restore siezed US property.

And then if the US would restore Cuba's stolen property, we'd be right back where we started.

But against the really evil guys like Al-Qaeda, they suddenly become silent.

Seeing as how AI primarily monitors human rights accorded by states (like the Taleban or the NA), rather than terrorist organizations, of course!

For the record, this is AI's latest annual survey on the Taleban:

http://web.amnesty.org/web/ar2001.nsf/webasacountries/AFGHANISTAN?OpenDocument

[axi]

For starters, Cuba does not bomb countries halfway around the globe.

Even when Castro dies, the political education of Cubans will keep them tied to socialism.

In fact, the whole Latin America is turning socialist and there's nothing you can do, apart from planting a new round of dictatorships.

[Alexander's Horse]

Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat


Castro was a dedicated commie from the get-go, and Raul Castro and Guevara even moreso than Fidel, who was the more "flexible" of the three. However, given that the commie-hating red under every bed mainstream American media of the 1950's questioned what the hell we were doing in bed with the Bautista regime, the US blew an opportunity to have more influence in Cuba, because a lot of US businesses liked the old system and the old way of doing business.

Castro might have ended up in the Soviet camp but he didn't start out there. I think the business thing was a big influence as you say. Companies like United Fruit liked their Latin countries run a certain way

[OneFootInTheGrave]

I am wandering why are all those Cubans risking their lives to come and step on the US ground? Are they fed up of living on a beautiful island with lovely weather and beaches?

What is it that makes them run away from their homeland to the land of the "free"?

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by axi
For starters, Cuba does not bomb countries halfway around the globe.

Even when Castro dies, the political education of Cubans will keep them tied to socialism.

In fact, the whole Latin America is turning socialist and there's nothing you can do, apart from planting a new round of dictatorships.

but the us is tuning socialist too

we are just doing it better and slower

Jon Miller

[Plan Austral]

If Lula Da Silva wins in Brasil, many countries in Latin America will turn to the left, that doesnt means socialist, it means a populist anti-globalization leader democratically elected very much like Hugo Chavez in Venezuela (very similar to Peron and her wife Evita in Argentina and with a little bit of Castro ).
If Lula doesnt wins, the situation will remain the same, the usa and some big economical powers doesnt wants Lula to win, and some weird things had happened, one of the principal collaborators of lula was killed, and they are telling to the people to not vote Lula because if lula wins the country will enter into chaos.
Right now, our new president is a peronist, he seems to be very moderate but if Lula wins he will feel free to be as populist as he wants, so you will have argentina, brasil and venezuela with populist gobernments, and that is almost all latin america.

This is really complex and i could be talking much longer, but i am on vacations and i dont have enough money to pay for more time in the internet.

The thing is that the USA doesnt like the situation and Argentina is in a big economical crisis, so they promise us all the money in the world if we continue being alleys of the usa and if we make them some little favours like voting against cuba in the un and allowing them to build military bases in argentina.

[Kyle]

Originally posted by axi
For starters, Cuba does not bomb countries halfway around the globe.

No, they just send their 'advisors' out to do the fighting.

Even when Castro dies, the political education of Cubans will keep them tied to socialism.

Well, in this case, socialism means little political or social freedoms.

[orange]

The funny thing is, if we actually did have free trade and relations with Cuba, everything would be just fine AND Cuba would start leaning to the right!! (with corporations recieving much more trade = $)

[GeneralTacticus]

quote:

2)Castro almost brought us to WW3. We can never forgive him for doing this.



Nope, we did that ourselves. The Cuban missile crisis was a direct response to the US putting missile batteries in Turkey pointed right at the underbelly of the USSR. Khrushchev decided to return the favor.

The US definitely did not cause the Cuban Missile Crisis. Krushchev was pissed that US had more nuke firepower than he did, so he decided to redress this by placing nukes on Cuba. The thing about US missiles in Turkey was just a demand that Krushchev made to humiliate the US (the missiles were due to be pulled out anyway, but if they were withdrawn because the Soviets wanted them to be, that would be tantamount to the US admiting the Soviets were stronger than they were).

As far as the embargo is concerned, I think that if it's helping the US, it should be kept, if not, it should be dropped. Period. Castro IS a tyrant, and if Cuba can do just fine with the embargo, then good for them. If they can survive with it, why do they need it dropped?

[Asher]

Keep the embargo!

Canada gets more trade out of Cuba this way.

[ZoboZeWarrior]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
The French would surrender before you had a chance to defend them.

Yes, now with the tunnel under the channel, our gouvernment could fly faster to London ...

Our tactic against USA is to let USA invade us. Then our local food will force them to adapt and to mutate into french or die ...
In both case we win ...