I have been trying to reply to the Israeli Reservist" thread for about an hour, but the site would not let me, So I decided to begina thread for my response.
The basic reason why the Israeli postion is immoral is that it is based on a policy of denying the humanity of over 2.7 million people who live on land Israel wants but has no rightful claim to.
Lets begin by saying that biblical claims are immaterial-if we start throwing the bible around (or Torah, or Q'uran) then evryone can claim to have a rightful piece of that land, not just Jews. Claims based on ancient history also do not matter. If the Caananites were to come back, would both Jews and Arabs have to vacate, since they are the original inhabitants? No.
So what are claims to land based on? Law. The borders of Israel were set in 1948, and the West bank and Gaza strip, and Golan, were not part of them. After Nurembarg, the world has made it clear that military might is not a valid way for a state to take land, since this invariabl dinies the inhabitants of that land their right of self-determination.
Defenders of Israel say- we are a democracy- fine, whens the last time there were elections in the West bank and Gaza in which the inhabitants were asked whether they wanted to be aprt of Israel? Wait, such elections have never taken place since Israel has never allowed it. The fact that Israel must patrol these areas not with its civil authority, as it does within the Green line, but with the military, shows that Israels claim to that land is based solely on its military might, and not any moral or legal claim.
I ask defenders of Israel to defend the following policies:
1. Demolishing the houses of the FAMILIES of suspects
2. Total blockades of towns, which prevent individuals from: going shopping, going to work, going to school, visiting relatives, recieving adequate medical care.
3. Rationing water to Palestinians, sometime only once every few days, while settlements nearby have enough water to run washing mashines.
4. Shooting live ammo at srone-throwing protestors
5. Indifinite holding of individuals with no legal review
6. The entire settlement policy.
Palestininas who commit terrorist acts are criminals and deserve to be punished (and I am no fan of Arafat), but the crimes of the Palestinians DO NOT erase the even bigger crimes of Israel since 1967. Everyone is responsible for their own actions, regardless the actions of others.
The basic reason why the Israeli postion is immoral is that it is based on a policy of denying the humanity of over 2.7 million people who live on land Israel wants but has no rightful claim to.
Lets begin by saying that biblical claims are immaterial-if we start throwing the bible around (or Torah, or Q'uran) then evryone can claim to have a rightful piece of that land, not just Jews. Claims based on ancient history also do not matter. If the Caananites were to come back, would both Jews and Arabs have to vacate, since they are the original inhabitants? No.
So what are claims to land based on? Law. The borders of Israel were set in 1948, and the West bank and Gaza strip, and Golan, were not part of them. After Nurembarg, the world has made it clear that military might is not a valid way for a state to take land, since this invariabl dinies the inhabitants of that land their right of self-determination.
Defenders of Israel say- we are a democracy- fine, whens the last time there were elections in the West bank and Gaza in which the inhabitants were asked whether they wanted to be aprt of Israel? Wait, such elections have never taken place since Israel has never allowed it. The fact that Israel must patrol these areas not with its civil authority, as it does within the Green line, but with the military, shows that Israels claim to that land is based solely on its military might, and not any moral or legal claim.
I ask defenders of Israel to defend the following policies:
1. Demolishing the houses of the FAMILIES of suspects
2. Total blockades of towns, which prevent individuals from: going shopping, going to work, going to school, visiting relatives, recieving adequate medical care.
3. Rationing water to Palestinians, sometime only once every few days, while settlements nearby have enough water to run washing mashines.
4. Shooting live ammo at srone-throwing protestors
5. Indifinite holding of individuals with no legal review
6. The entire settlement policy.
Palestininas who commit terrorist acts are criminals and deserve to be punished (and I am no fan of Arafat), but the crimes of the Palestinians DO NOT erase the even bigger crimes of Israel since 1967. Everyone is responsible for their own actions, regardless the actions of others.
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