Do we need IDs?

[MikeH]

Well if you set up a bank account you must have had some kind of ID so you could show that. Maybe it's a driving license, maybe it's a passport. And that's only for your protection to stop someone stealing your money, not for the state to keep tabs on you.

Point is that although you might need it for some things you don't need to carry it around with you all the time. Police can't stop you in the street, demand to see your ID and if you don't have any arrest you just because of that. That, really, is the only reason to have a national ID card and it's not a good reason. It just means minorities get stopped and searched even more often than they already do.

[spartak]

Darn straight.

[Mihai]

MikeH - Just a thought : how do you track down illegal imigrants?

Edit : depista (rom) = track down (engl). I was in a harry and forgot that english doesn't resemble with romanian like france does.

[MikeH]

depistate?

[*End Is Forever*]

Deport? Disperse? Destroy?

[Mihai]

I corrected.

Another thought : when you want a driver license or a passport, what papers do you need?

[spartak]

Your birth certificate and the signature of a "professional" who has known you for two years to confirm your ID.

In some circumstances you may also need to provide your parents' birth & wedding certificates or certificates of naturalisation to obtain a UK passport - normally if your or your parents are not UK born, or where they have obtained citizenship by means other than birth. (Please don't ask me to go into the rules for UK citizenship - its boring and its not fun to regurgitate).

[Mihai]

Originally posted by Gasmaske
the signature of a "professional" who has known you for two years to confirm your ID.

That I like it!
Never heard of something like that before.

[Bereta_Eder]

National IDs can lead to less beaurocracy if for most things you just need your ID and nothing else.

[Velociryx]

Hmmm.

ID's are necessary. No doubt about that. They offer certain protections in your business and financial dealings (requiring ID's prevents Joe Somebody from getting a Visa Charge Card in my name and running up a big-a$$ bill for me to pay. So, there's no denying the value of ID's, HOWEVER....

Those kinds of ID's are the ones you don't have to carry around with you 24/7.

In the end, compulsory ID's are about control.

Who are you? Why are you here? Where are you going?

And once you start requiring a compulsory ID be carried anytime you leave your house, then where does it stop?

Short answer...it won't.

Here is, in my mind, a fairly "natural progression" that compulsory ID's would take:

1) Hey! It'd be awesome if we had this one, unified, national ID that everyone had to carry at all times (and we could issue similar ID's to everyone entering this country--GREAT way to track the movements of everyone! If you've got nothing to hide, it's no biggie! TRUST US! It's for your own good! :: Dubya in the background saying: "If we don't do this, the terrorists win....":: ) Failure to produce your ID on demand would result in detainment until you could be "properly identified."

2) OH! You know, with all the technological advances available, we could include a chip on "THE CARD" which would contain your entire medical history! Yes! And that way, if anything happened to you, the doctors would be able to just...POOF! Pull up everything about you! (what you're allergic to, last cholesterol count, blood type, all that jazz)...good stuff!

3) Hmmm...well, since we have this unified card now, this would be a good required ID to use when applying for credit. In fact, when you apply for credit, what we'll do is add a magentic stripe to the back of "THE CARD" and you can just use it to buy stuff! (cos you DID remember to bring it with you...didn't you?)

4) Ahhh ha! This card has alllll the informationn potential employers need to help them make "informed hiring decsions." Potential employees will henceforth be required to surrender their card so that we (THE COMPANY) can check your background....you know, the usual stuff, look over your credit report, check out your spending habits, see if you're a smoker....you said no on your application, but according to your medical history....why are you lying to us, Mr. Hartpence? What ELSE might you be hiding? You strike us as a "dangerous man."....

***Two AM....On foot, on the way to the convenience store near my townhouse....lights flash, cop approaches***

Officer: "What are you doing out at this time of night?"

Me: "Well...as if it's any of your business, I'm going up to grab a beer and a pack of smokes."

Officer: "I don't like your attitude, punk. Let's see some ID."

(Produces ID....waits while the cop runs it through the computer....some of my neighbors drive by--also night owls, which is one of the reasons we get along--looking worried for me).

Officer: "Says here the last credit purchase you made was almost a month ago....nobody goes that long without buying something....you must be using cash" (cop looks VERY suspicious)

Me: "I confess, officer...I committed the "crime" of using cash cos I didn't like the idea of just any a$$hole--not directed at YOU, of course (smiling innocently) to be able to see everything I've ever bought."

Cop: "Well...why not? Are you HIDING something?"

Me: "No...it's just none of your business."

Cop: "That's very suspicious....you dissenters make me sick!"

Yeah....Sadly, I can see that all too vividly....


-=Vel=-

[spartak]

Originally posted by Mihai


That I like it!
Never heard of something like that before.

Its just a safeguard against fraud. the professional needs to be some like a Police Officer, a Civil Servant, a Doctor, an Accountant etc etc etc. In most cases its just to confirm the likeness of the photo. The passport agency do run checks but I won't go into that.

As far as IDs helping you detect illegal immigrants. I can't comment as its a little too close to home (working for the government and all).

And Velociryx has hit the nail firmly on the head.

[Skanky Burns]

I would prefer a single National ID card compared to the current system of dozens of cards needed, on the condition that YOU as the owner of the card would have control of what information that card gives out, even to the police.

I currently have a drivers lisence (the main form of id), 2 bank cards, medical card, 2 video store cards (from the same store, one for both locations) as well as other miscellaneous ones. How much easier would it be to only have 1 card?? If say someone stole my wallet, it would be a pain (and costly) to get replacements for all those cards, and to stop those other cards from being used by whoever had them now.

With just 1 smart card, it would be fairly easy to replace. Getting the information back onto it would still be as much of a problem as replacing cards currently, granted, but would be a lot cheaper.
One distinct advantage of the single card though would be that whoever stole it wouldnt be able to access any of the information contained on the card, as each section would be password-protected like bank cards with PINs.

So for Vels example:
Officer: "Wheres your ID??"

You hand him the ID

Officer: "Well, the name and address you gave me match what it says here, and the photo also matches what you look like. Since you have no criminal record and I have no access to any other information contained on your card, you are free to go..."

You: (out of police's hearing) "Bastard"


If ownership and access to the information was controlled soley by YOU, then there would be nothing to fear by using a single card any more than you would fear the current system. Companies, banks, whoever, would only be able to access the information that YOU allowed them to.

[Ramo]

Mandatory identifiction is a poor excuse to crack down on otherwise law-abding "illegal" immigrants.

Any competent terrorist would simply forge one.

[Velociryx]

I agree, Skanky, and I liked your re-working of my skit!

Sadly, the government doesn't agree....

I fear once that ball starts rolling, we'll quickly find it out of our hands and control....

And Amen Ramo! Gosh it feels good to be on the same side of the fence with you! I like your posts and style!

-=Vel=-

[Skanky Burns]

Also, by using smart cards for an ID, forging could be reduced as the information would be the important bit of the ID, not the physical appearance of the ID card.

Disclaimer:
If the American Govt ever came out with a National ID, there would be no way in hell I'd ever use it (excluding that fact im not in America)
Such a card would probably deem more of your information 'necessary to be publically available' and corporations for example would probably be allowed access to your spending history. Also, I would guarantee that back-doors would be included to allow the Govt/FBI/CIA access to everything on your card without the need of a password. In short, your private information would not be private.

For a card such as the one I envisioned to come about, it would most likely come from Eurasia. Their information policy is to put the individual before the corporation.

LOL Vel - I posted this disclaimer before I even read your post *bg*