Capital Gains Taxes - Should they be abolished?

[9 ECAC Titles]

I can't understand how someone who opposes progressive taxes on ideological grounds can support a flat tax. After all, with a flat tax, a wealthy person still pays more than a poor person.

By the "morality" (sic) argument, why shouldn't everyone have to pay the same amount. The wealthy man and the poor man use the same road -- why should the wealthy man pay any more for its upkeep? They're protected by the same military.

The US budget is 2 trillion dollars. (http://w3.access.gpo.gov/usbudget/fy2001/pdf/budget.pdf)

The US population is roughly 280 million.

Everyone must now fork over $7200. If you have a dependent, you must claim them and pay an additional $7200 (the adult and the child use the same road, military, etc...)

If you have less than $7200, you are committing a felony and will be treated accordingly.

The Ideal State, brought to you by the defenders of property against theft.

[Rogan Josh]

Originally posted by 9 ECAC Titles
The Ideal State, brought to you by the defenders of property against theft.

And what if you want to opt out of this ideal state?

[Dauphin]

Why make assumptions?

Originally posted by Rogan Josh


But no one is coming into my home and taking 25% of my money. I don't pay taxes.....

I suppose you are one of these loony libertarian types who seem to think that you wouldn't get your head smashed in by a baseball bat if there was no government keeping order.

Did I say such a thing? Very presjudiced. A simple statement and you typecast. Actually I believe taxes should exist and must be paid, but it doesn't stop it being theft.

Anyway, why don't you offer to pay taxes to the Swiss government?

[axi]

Consumption taxes tend to do that sort of thing.

[pchang]

Germany

Like I said before, move to Germany. Anyway, I saw this welfare mother wasting her food stamps on twinkies. Since, I don't condone this government waste, I'm only sending in $7100.

[Rogan Josh]

Re: Why make assumptions?

Originally posted by Sagacious Dolphin
Anyway, why don't you offer to pay taxes to the Swiss government?

Why should I? I don't live in Switzerland.

[David Floyd]

pchang, I already explained how Germany is worse (more social programs, no gun ownership, higher taxes, etc.).

[pchang]

Yes

So you did. Perhaps, the second part of my post falls more in line with your thinking.

[Dauphin]

I seem to recall a conversation that you worked at CERN (i.e Switzerland and a bit of France). Are you still living in Germany these days then?

Besides why don't you pay income tax - due to the International Status of CERN?

[Imran Siddiqui]

I can't understand how someone who opposes progressive taxes on ideological grounds can support a flat tax. After all, with a flat tax, a wealthy person still pays more than a poor person.

I believe the ideological answer is that it is fair for them to be taxed the same percentage. The progressive tax is opposed because of the differences in percentages paid.

[Victor Galis]

But the initial investment was already taxed. The gains result from that initial taxed investment.

-So if I make $4000 and invest it and make an additional $500 off it, it is unfair that I should be taxed for $4500?

And some of us oppose theft.

-And some of us think for ourselves.

Apparently. My definition is something along the lines of "forcibly taking things which don't belong to you". What's yours?

-Suppose that person is your landlord and the things which don't belong to him are the rent you haven't yet paid him.

It is theft. If someone came into your home and took 25% of your money would you not consider that theft.

-See above.

I suppose you are one of these loony libertarian types who seem to think that you wouldn't get your head smashed in by a baseball bat if there was no government keeping order.

-Aside from that, there's the no one will maintain the roads problem.

What in hell are you talking about? Just because the government legalized it doesn't change whether or not it's theft

-Then rent, intrest rates, admission fees, etc. are all theft

But that's irrelevant, as no Libertarian supports anarchy.

-True, but they support policies that would bring about anarchy.

[Imran Siddiqui]

So if I make $4000 and invest it and make an additional $500 off it, it is unfair that I should be taxed for $4500?

Yes, I believe so.

[Victor Galis]

By the "morality" (sic) argument, why shouldn't everyone have to pay the same amount. The wealthy man and the poor man use the same road -- why should the wealthy man pay any more for its upkeep? They're protected by the same military.

-The poor man might use it less because he might not have a car.

And what if you want to opt out of this ideal state?

-The Mexican border isn't that far away.

"Anyway, why don't you offer to pay taxes to the Swiss government?"

-Because I don't use the Swiss government's services.

[Roland]

AS:

"Thinking off the top of my head, the difference in income should compensate for that."

Ehm... how ? Income as in market factor income follows productivity. Income as in government cheque is just redistribution....

"But don't you macro types assume homogeneous labor and capital anyway??"

ARGHHH! HERESY!
Disaggregation esp in the capital structure is crucial for austrian economics. And don't throw me in with the econometrics desease!

RJ:

"Are you saying that loan interest and dividends and the like are not tax deductable?"

Depends at which level. But I think the confusion (or misunderstanding ?) is about what constitutes the layers: it's not various companies, but a corporation and its owners. The return on capital tied up that way is often taxed twice (corporate tax and income tax) - and to compensate for that, the two rates are often lower. But it is one return on capital and should not be taxed higher than other returns or labour income.

pchang:

Same here (zero tax on appreciation gains after holding stocks one year). I still wonder why we do not have a massive capital inflow from tax refugees. Oh wait, we have...

[Rogan Josh]

Originally posted by Sagacious Dolphin
I seem to recall a conversation that you worked at CERN (i.e Switzerland and a bit of France). Are you still living in Germany these days then?

No - I am living in France, although I work in Switzerland.

Besides why don't you pay income tax - due to the International Status of CERN?

Yes. The treaty which set up CERN stipulated that the employees do not have to pay income tax. Presumably this is because the CERN budget is paid by all the member states, and my salary comes out of that budget, so the other member states would feel put out if France (or Switzerland) where to take a chunk of that money for themselves. The prestige of having CERN on their territory and the wealth which CERN generates locally is deemed benefit enough for the host countries.

If I did have to pay tax, I would live in Switzerland - although the cost of living is higher the Swiss tax is much lower than the French tax.