Jews for Jesus

[Alexander's Horse]

The Jewish religious calendar has days of atonement and ritual cleansing is a big part of life I thought.

[chequita guevara]

Rabbi Singer Answers Your Questions

This guy first came to my attention when I saw a newsquip about Jews for Jesus suing Outreach Judasim because they owned jews-for-jesus.com. I love this guy. He rips the Gospels a good one, showing the falsehood of all the Christian claims about Jesus fulfilling prophecy. Cybershy, you oughta check it out.


Outreach Judaism Responds [to Jews For Jesus].

[Bereta_Eder]

you can't live your life based on christianity, or any other religion either propably.

so what's the use *bjork* AAAAAAh AAAAAAh of falling in looove*bjork* turururururu

[Goingonit]

Originally posted by Natan
No, to the contrary - the idea that sincere repentence makes up for wrongdoing has always been part of Judaism.

I stated my point wrongly. You can atone for your sins, but not by telling someone about it or by being in a state of grace.

All forms of Judaism allow conversion.

I was not aware of this - what is the theological grounding?

[chequita guevara]

Judaism has always allowed conversion. It just ain't easy. If it were, Europe would be Jewish, not Christian. Nowdays its a lot easier, since you have several flavors from which to choose.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Rabbi Singer Answers Your Questions

He rips the Gospels a good one, showing the falsehood of all the Christian claims about Jesus fulfilling prophecy.

War of the Hyperlinks

[Natan]

Originally posted by Goingonit
I stated my point wrongly. You can atone for your sins, but not by telling someone about it or by being in a state of grace.

Okay - although there are various ritual atonement customs practiced by Jews in various parts of the world.

I was not aware of this - what is the theological grounding?

I'm not sure what you're asking for here - a philosophical explanation, a Torah passage, a Talmud tractate, a website, or what. But the basic conversion procedure is that you appear before three rabbis who ask you some questions to see if you really know what you're getting into, mostly just questions about Judaism, but they also ask why you would want to join a persecuted nation with strange laws. You answer the questions, immerse yourself in the Mikvah, (ritual bath) and say a blessing.

[chequita guevara]

Rabbi Singer on atonement

The sin sacrifice, 1 repentance 2 and charity.3 Moreover, the sin sacrifice (known in the Jewish scriptures as Korban Chatat) did not atone for all types of sin, but rather, only for man's most insignificant iniquity: unintentional sins.4 The sin sacrifice was inadequate to atone for a transgression committed intentionally. The brazen sinner was barred from the Sanctuary, and had to bear his own iniquity because of his rebellious intent to sin against God. The Torah teaches this fundamental principle in Numbers 15:27-31:

"If a person sins unintentionally, then he shall offer a one year old female goat for a sin offering. And the priest shall make atonement before the LORD for the person who goes astray when he sins unintentionally, making atonement for him that he may be forgiven.... But the person who does anything defiantly, whether he is native or an alien, that one is blaspheming the LORD; and that person shall be cut off from among his people. Because he has despised the word of the LORD and has broken His commandment, that person shall be completely cut off; his guilt shall be on him."

[Seeker]

More of God's goat-fetish...

BTW, Singer makes a pretty convincing argument that Jesus didn't fulfill the prophecies of the messiah.

1. Kingship is passed via the father (patrilineal). It doesn't matter who Mary was related to. Jesus was not a king from the line of David (virgin birth).

http://www.outreachjudaism.org/messiah.html

2. The prophecy foretells that when the Messiah comes, all nations will know and worship the One God (TM). It doesn't say when he comes, leaves, then comes again. There were many religions in 4BC.

3. The arrival of the Messiah will begin an era of world peace. Didn't happen with Jesus.

4. The Messiah will be King of Israel. There will ALSO be a SEPERATE High Priest in the Temple. Paul yaks in Romans about how Jesus combined both...

5. The Psalm that supposedly foretells the Cruxifixion mistranslates some Hebrew. Singer says that since the normal translation for these same words is used throughout the rest of Bible it looks pretty suspicios that it was a deliberate mistranslation.

http://www.outreachjudaism.org/whojesus.html

6. The prophecy foretells that animal sacrifices will resume with the return of the Messiah, after a period where they have stopped. Jesus struck out on this one too.

7. He also brings up the excellent point that Jesus never actually claimed to be God:
"...throughout the Gospels and Paul’s letters Jesus never claims to be God. On the contrary, the Jesus of the New Testament makes it crystal clear that he is not God, but rather an agent of God. For example, in John 14:28, the author of the fourth Gospel has Jesus declare,

I go unto the Father, for my Father is greater than I."

http://www.outreachjudaism.org/claimgod.html

[Shadowstrike]

I have a question. In Jesus' time, it was considered "moral" to sacrifice say a goat as a burnt offering. You try doing that now and you get jailed for maltreating an animal. Now if the coming of the Messiah would resume animal sacrifices, and since animal sacrifices have long since become "immoral", how would that work? More importantly, since Jesus refuted the sacrifices and similar traditions (we don't read anything about Jesus sacrificing a poor defenseless lamb in teh Gospels, do we?), and didn't exactly fit the criteria, should that automatically make him not teh Messiah? Or was the Messiah simply a vague definition of teh "perfect king" for the people of the time, but over the centuries after the death of Christ, it became synonomous with Jesus? How much has later translations altered the original texts and accounts?

[DinoDoc]

You people do realize that this actually boring without CivNation or his equivilant here, don't you?

[chequita guevara]

Animal sacrifice is still pravelent throughout much of the world, so I don't see much of a problem there. My understanding is it's only supposed to be done at the temple, so it won't be as if Jews are suddenly sacrificing animals all over the world.

I can't answer the rest of your questions.

[DaShi]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
This is an interesting question that has bothered me. They would be Christians wouldn't they? But they refuse to be called that. Interesting to say that least. While they believe Jesus is the Messiah, do they believe that he is the son of God?

I'm Catholic and I really don't like being called a Christian.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Why?

[DaShi]

Because the term Christians often brings to mind protestant extremists (aka nut jobs). I don't want to associated with that. The JewsforJesus may feel the same way.