Apple's new iMac

[devilmunchkin]

i think that this is a last ditch bid for Mac before they either declare bankruptcy or bill gates secretly takes over. seriously, mac is in deep water due to many programs working more efficiently on pc's and macintosh's ****ty customer service.
For example, my friend purchased a dual flat monitor mac that was supposed to be that fastest on the market. It got to him but wouldn't work and he sent it back to be fixed. He's been wrangling with them for the past few months because they no longer make the parts. Because this comp is for his company, he's obviously losing money and each person he talks to on the phone just feeds him lines so it's very difficult. It's getting to the point where his lawyer may be stepping in soon if they don't fix his computer and send it back soon.
Also, hasn't bill gates approched mac to help keep them afloat? if so...there has to be a catch ..like mac begining to use microsoft programs. Thus..that will make mac diehards have to know how to use pc programs so by the time mac really does go under, they will naturally switch over to pc's and leave linux hurting (the only other microsoft competitor besides mac).
how far off do you think this is?

[Asher]

Originally posted by devilmunchkin
i think that this is a last ditch bid for Mac before they either declare bankruptcy or bill gates secretly takes over. seriously, mac is in deep water due to many programs working more efficiently on pc's and macintosh's ****ty customer service.
For example, my friend purchased a dual flat monitor mac that was supposed to be that fastest on the market. It got to him but wouldn't work and he sent it back to be fixed. He's been wrangling with them for the past few months because they no longer make the parts. Because this comp is for his company, he's obviously losing money and each person he talks to on the phone just feeds him lines so it's very difficult. It's getting to the point where his lawyer may be stepping in soon if they don't fix his computer and send it back soon.

I eagerly await Wiglaf's thread talking about how people should not buy Macs due to the horrible customer service and the degradation in quality. (He made a thread about Dell for something less than that )

Also, hasn't bill gates approched mac to help keep them afloat? if so...there has to be a catch ..like mac begining to use microsoft programs. Thus..that will make mac diehards have to know how to use pc programs so by the time mac really does go under, they will naturally switch over to pc's and leave linux hurting (the only other microsoft competitor besides mac).
how far off do you think this is?

Yeah, MS "generously" bailed out Apple computer a while back. Surprise, surprise that MacOS now comes with IE only, and Office and whatnot still comes out on the Mac.

[devilmunchkin]

see...
bill gates is gonna take over the world....
think about it though...if mac users all become trained on MS programs, that will make them less likely to use Linux if and when Mac crumbles. It IS quite brilliant really. lol.

[Drake Tungsten]

Come on Asher, I thought you were smart enough not to believe this conspiracy crap. The fact is, Bill Gates could've destroyed Apple a long time ago if he had really wanted to. He didn't because he gets more good out of keeping Apple around. He can sell tons of MS software to Apple users and he maintains a company he can point to as "competition". Maintaining the appearance of actual competition is important to a company like MS that likes to abuse its monopoly in operating systems to expand into other areas. Not to mention that Apple comes up with many innovative ideas that are later co-opted by MS. I may hate Bill, but even I must admit that he is an evil genius.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
Come on Asher, I thought you were smart enough not to believe this conspiracy crap. The fact is, Bill Gates could've destroyed Apple a long time ago if he had really wanted to. He didn't because he gets more good out of keeping Apple around. He can sell tons of MS software to Apple users and he maintains a company he can point to as "competition". Maintaining the appearance of actual competition is important to a company like MS that likes to abuse its monopoly in operating systems to expand into other areas. Not to mention that Apple comes up with many innovative ideas that are later co-opted by MS. I may hate Bill, but even I must admit that he is an evil genius.

When did I believe in that "conspiracy crap"?

I agree with what you say.
Although I don't think Bill Gates is evil at all, just a capitalist. If you think capitalists are evil...well, that's another thing. Many people hate to admit it, but most of this deep hatred for Bill comes from jealousy.

[Drake Tungsten]

I thought you were buying into devilmunchkin's theory on Apple's "imminent bankruptcy" or Bill Gates "secret takeover" of Apple. You of all people should know that neither is going to happen anytime soon. I guess I misunderstood.

Anyway, I don't really think Bill is evil. I just dislike him because of his business practices. I support capitalism on the whole, but I do like a little Teddy Roosevelt style trust-busting every now and then. God knows Microsoft needs to have a little humility beat into them with a "big stick".

[Asher]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
Anyway, I don't really think Bill is evil. I just dislike him because of his business practices. I support capitalism on the whole, but I do like a little Teddy Roosevelt style trust-busting every now and then. God knows Microsoft needs to have a little humility beat into them with a "big stick".

The irony here is the court system is the only party humiliated by this whole thing so far. Judge Jackson... What a character

[Drake Tungsten]

I happen to like Judge Jackson. He's blunt and to the point, qualities that I like in a person (and a judge). His findings of fact have also not been overturned; it seems that the appeals court disapproved of his personality, not his judicial decision. Oh well, we'll find out what the next chapter in this saga is in March (sorry MS).

[Asher]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
I happen to like Judge Jackson. He's blunt and to the point, qualities that I like in a person (and a judge). His findings of fact have also not been overturned; it seems that the appeals court disapproved of his personality, not his judicial decision. Oh well, we'll find out what the next chapter in this saga is in March (sorry MS).

You've got to be kidding me.
Judge Jackson is a biased fool who made ludicrous comments outside of court. He's a jackass, bluntly. Hardly judicial material. No way around it at all.

MS will win anyway. It's just MS vs. half of the original states now, and MS has George W. in their back pocket and lawyers up the yin-yang.

Jackson was an embarassment to the entire American judicial system. At least that's how it looks to non-Americans.

[Drake Tungsten]

Like I said, people disapprove of his personality. The fact remains that his findings of fact have not been overturned, so he must be "judicial material". The DC circuit court was not friendly to him at all, but even they couldn't find faults with his decision. Maybe he is a jackass, but I like a guy who speaks his mind and isn't intimidated by the largest corporation in the world. You don't have to be popular to be a judge (at least that's what four years of pre-law classes have taught me).

MS will win anyway. It's just MS vs. half of the original states now, and MS has George W. in their back pocket and lawyers up the yin-yang.

This may very well be true. The DOJ doesn't seem too interested in continuing this. I wouldn't underestimate the state's however, especially with California on their side. California is probably the most powerful state in the union and I think they will prove a tough opponent to MS, especially with all the Silicon Valley companies pressuring them.

Jackson was an embarassment to the entire American judicial system. At least that's how it looks to non-Americans.

Speaking of non-Americans, the EU hasn't been to kind to MS in the past either. Don't they have some sort of anti-trust action pending as well? The American government may be MS's best ally right now.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
Like I said, people disapprove of his personality. The fact remains that his findings of fact have not been overturned, so he must be "judicial material". The DC circuit court was not friendly to him at all, but even they couldn't find faults with his decision. Maybe he is a jackass, but I like a guy who speaks his mind and isn't intimidated by the largest corporation in the world. You don't have to be popular to be a judge (at least that's what four years of pre-law classes have taught me).

MS isn't the largest corporation in the world. It just has the healthiest balance sheet.
Jackson was said to display bias by the Appeals Court, the only reason his entire decision wasn't overturned was to save time. His screwups may have let MS totally off the hook of a breakup, though.

This may very well be true. The DOJ doesn't seem too interested in continuing this. I wouldn't underestimate the state's however, especially with California on their side. California is probably the most powerful state in the union and I think they will prove a tough opponent to MS, especially with all the Silicon Valley companies pressuring them.

And what can these 10 states do, at best? Fine MS?
Even if the 10 states get their way with MS (not very likely, IMO), it'll be a slap on the wrist if anything.

Speaking of non-Americans, the EU hasn't been to kind to MS in the past either. Don't they have some sort of anti-trust action pending as well? The American government may be MS's best ally right now.

I don't follow European politics.
I do know the EU is after Intel and MS, but they haven't been successful. I also know AMD is lobbying the EU against Intel and Sun & Co are lobbying against Microsoft.

The main problem with this case is that Sun and Netscape (AOL/TimeWarner now) are hypocritical. They stand before judges whining about how MS bundling IE with Windows killed their browser business, while they keep releasing new browsers out to the market place regularly. They also start bundling things like "Join AOL!" with AIM/ICQ/Winamp, clearly bundling to try to keep themselves in the #1 slot for ISPs. Then they also try to say that MS is ultimately hurting consumers with these practices, yet there's no real evidence to that yet. In fact, before MS entered the scene, people were paying $50 a pop for a basic internet webbrowser. MS caused that to become free for consumers.

There's basically a lot of logic errors in their case, and they're relying entirely on technicalities on a law that was intended for resource distribution companies and railways, not Operating Systems.

[Drake Tungsten]

I agree with you about AOL/Time Warner, but I don't think we should let Microsoft off the hook just because AOL abuses its power too. Both of these corporations need to be brought up on anti-trust violations.

Anyway, my point in this whole discussion is that MS is not out of the woods yet by any stretch of the imagination. The remaining 10 states are a threat. If my knowledge of the appeals process is correct (and it should be as I had the class last semester), the federal government can't reach an agreement with Microsoft as long as the states are still dissenting or until the states exhaust all of their appeals. Needless to say, this could drag on for a long time yet and the dissenting states could force the government to take a much harder line with MS. I also wouldn't write off the EU, as they have seemed to be much more hostile to MS than the Clinton administration ever was. The EU is the second largest economy in the world, so Microsoft can't afford to write it off if the EU finds against it. Microsoft is in better shape than they were after Judge Jackson's decision, but they certainly haven't won yet. This case could change directions again.

[Asher]

About the EU: What would happen if MS decided to cut its losses and forbid software sales in the EU?

You never know with Bill...

If the EU takes an unreasonably hard stance and looks like they'd win, Bill may just tell them to piss off and save the legal costs, forgoing that (albeit very large) market. That is, unless they cave.

[Drake Tungsten]

I really don't think that it would be possible for Microsoft to write off the EU. It is simply too big a market to abandon and would provide a staging ground for real competition if MS were to leave it. If Bill abandoned Europe, he might wake up to find a British or German software company entrenched in Europe and threatening to spread into America. Who knows, maybe if Microsoft abandoned Europe, Steve Jobs would move in and start Apple's rise to dominance!

Well, maybe not. But MS still can't write off Europe. It would probably destroy the company (lots of lost revenues).

[Asher]

What's the worst the EU could do anyway?
Fine the company?