U.S. Shutdown Somalia's Internet.

[DarkCloud]

Originally posted by Chris 62
More kid stuff in this thread.

Quite simple: You ally with the OBL boys, you are our enemy, and we will f*ck you any way we can.

I'll shed a tear for Somalia when they start behaving like a civilized nation, instead of one that drags dead men through the streets while laughing and singing.

They danced with the devil, now they got their asses burned.

To damn bad.

For them.

um... this is the problem that most people have with america- the fact that some people don't really want to investigate other cultures and change them.

There is the fact that america should behave reasonably and not use this as an excuse to beat up its old enemies.

I really don't care much if civilians are injured if there is a purpose- but fabricating evidence and such really ticks me off- I hate people who lie.

The question is, Chris, is the more important thing killing people who may or may not have done somthing wrong- or waiting a month or so and finding out the truth- I would be for a full examination of the system- but if nothing is found in 1-2 weeks, parts of the system should be allowed to once again function.

What would the third world do without the west? It would be even poorer than now. About $300 billion is transfered annually from the West to poorer countries. Now that's a huge amount of money and I don't think West can possibly be expected to do any more.

I agree with Roman here- America and 'rich' countries continuously fund the 'lesser' nations- my thought is let them die off- who really cares about a lesser nation- if they can get together, let them, and if they are a threat to the world- destroy them- but let them govern themselves the way they want to.

there are other much smaller companies providing remittance services but Al-Barakaat also is the biggest post and telecom company so there will still be a serious disruption. Just as serious is that those companies, like Al-Bakaraat, use the informal hawalad banking system, on which the US is cracking down because they suspect it is abused to finance Al-Qaeda. So if a company wants to start providing the same services, it can’t use the hawala system if it wants to stay out of trouble but the problem that a lot of people simply cannot afford anything beyond the hawala system. (eg, money transfers to Pakistan costs 15% commission if you use an official service, but only 1-2% with hawala)

Colon- allow the US time to investigate the system- a one week disruption couldn't really hurt Somalia much- the only people it would hurt are the quarreling and embezzling oil overlords. And even then, there are other channels open to them. 1-2 weeks is good. 3-4 is questionable. 2 months is unacceptable unless something is found.

And, in the end, if nothing is found, reparations are due.

[DanS]

"This is Somalia, the country is already continuously on the edge of famine, and I think most ordinary people there have other priorities than sifting through the dealings of the company to find out whether it is or isn’t a front company for Al-Qaeda."

Well, I guess I don't see a temporary 15% money transfer fee as a big of deal as a terrorist incident of this magnitude. I bet the Somali cabbies in Washington have lost much more than that due to decreased travel in the days following September 11.

"And where’s the evidence?"

Yeh, they haven't shared the evidence with me either.

[Lonestar]

Darkclouds

um... this is the problem that most people have with america- the fact that some people don't really want to investigate other cultures and change them.

Dragging people through streets while laughing isn
t "Culture", it's barbarity. Just like the IRA Kneecapping people isn't culture, it's barbarity.

[OldWarrior_42]

Something I find very odd here. That the U.S or any other western nation government does not share any of what it may consider to be sensitive or even just important information with the "Apolyton Internet Gaming Site".

[faded glory]

Markos how many hits have you got from Somalia???

I remember a thread long ago that showed were all the hits came from. I think a few from Uganda and Iraq were odd. But how many have hit ACS?


Oh yes.......Blame the British or french for Somalia. (forget which ones to blame )

[kittenOFchaos]

France, Britain and Italy had a share of Somalia...Britain got the lot when "we" kicked in Mussolini...

If we were still in charge then this sort of thing wouldn't happen

So many people forget that in the 3rd world nations in Africa that American and Russian backed warlords/governments fighting each other to form pr-west/east governments are a MAJOR reason for many of the contemporary problems...the British Empire brought, infrastructure, central government and development -to access raw materials to be sent to the UK.

[Saint Marcus]

Dragging people through streets while laughing isn
t "Culture", it's barbarity. Just like the IRA Kneecapping people isn't culture, it's barbarity.

And would you call American actions in Vietnam a sign of "culture"? Massacers (sp), rapes, napalm on civilians, etc. It's not all that long ago really, or did the US suddenly grew a ''culture'' in some 30 years?

Quite simple: You ally with the OBL boys, you are our enemy, and we will f*ck you any way we can.

Oh please grow up Chris! You're acting like an angry 15 year old for Christ's sake.

I'll shed a tear for Somalia when they start behaving like a civilized nation, instead of one that drags dead men through the streets while laughing and singing.

How can you judge an entire nation of millions by looking at the actions of a mere handfull of extremists? Or do you really think 99% of the Somalis are crazy terrorists?

To damn bad.
For them.

Like Bin Laden said after Sept 11. You're little better than he is.

[Saint Marcus]

What would the third world do without the west? It would be even poorer than now. About $300 billion is transfered annually from the West to poorer countries. Now that's a huge amount of money and I don't think West can possibly be expected to do any more.

Without the west the third world wouldn't be in this mess in the first place. The 300 billion, or whatever the total sum is, is the least the west can and must do for the way we ****ed their continents up. And we should damn well do more, we created this mess, and now we should clean it up.

[Saint Marcus]

the British Empire brought, infrastructure, central government and development -to access raw materials to be sent to the UK.

Don't forget the slave trade.

[Tolls]

Slavery's a lot older than the British Empire, Mark.

kittenOFchaos:
We mat have built infrastructure there, but rarely (if ever) did we place any locals in a position of power (especially in Africa)...they were at best low ranking bureaucrats. The result of this was often a power vacuum when we did finally leave, which is perfect breeding ground for the more unscrupulous sort who are in it for power and the ability to siphon dosh off to Swiss bank accounts.

[Colon™]

” Well, I guess I don't see a temporary 15% money transfer fee as a big of deal as a terrorist incident of this magnitude. I bet the Somali cabbies in Washington have lost much more than that due to decreased travel in the days following September 11.”

OK let me get this straight. AFAIK US hasn’t even lifted a finger against Saudi Arabia’s reactionary Wahhabi sect or the country in general for being the main source of Bin Laden’s financial and human resources.
And also AFAIK, the US intelligence has no qualms in cooperating with their colleagues in Pakistan who created the Taliban but when it comes to Somalia and Al-Barakaat US cannot even afford to hold a proper trial or even provide some decent backup because of the chance, however big or small, this company will finance the next WTC?

[DarkCloud]

Mark- if it wasn't for the west- they would likely still be primitive tribes in most of Africa- (exceptions: ethiopia, Egypt, Saudi Arabia*possibly)

Africa was developed by the west- and the slave trade was not entirely the wests fault- the natives practiced it and helped facilitate the west- neither side was good- but it was not "the wests" fault- and no- the west does not owe them anything- Africa owes Europe and America MUCH in debt- in fact the west shouldn;'t even fund them until they pay most of their debts- then perhaps Europe and America will pay their UN debts. !!!

"Dragging people through the streets"- perhaps impose some sort of order in the areas, but don't compel them to change

Mark- about Vietnam- so??? South Vietnam needed America/France to help them stay out of NVietnam's hands- albeit the USA had no real interests other than to keep it away from the communists- but Russia was just as bad- they facilitted NVietnam- also, If someone hadn't stepped in, the war could have gone on for a long time. Or a short one... If only one side stepped in.

[DarkCloud]

Originally posted by Colon
” Well, I guess I don't see a temporary 15% money transfer fee as a big of deal as a terrorist incident of this magnitude. I bet the Somali cabbies in Washington have lost much more than that due to decreased travel in the days following September 11.”

OK let me get this straight. AFAIK hasn’t even lifted a finger against Saudi Arabia’s reactionary Wahhabi sect or the country in general for being the main source of Bin Laden’s financial and human resources. And also AFAIK, the US intelligence has no qualms in cooperating with their colleagues in Pakistan who created the Taliban but when it comes to Somalia and Al-Barakaat US cannot even afford to hold a proper trial or even provide some decent backup because of the chance, however big or small, this company will finance the next WTC?

Who would want to anger their allies- it is the only way- later the US can deal with them, when they have more people elsewhere in the Mideast on their side.
THey cannot interfere everywhere.

[Stefan Härtel]

Mark- if it wasn't for the west- they would likely still be primitive tribes in most of Africa- (exceptions: ethiopia,
Egypt, Saudi Arabia*possibly)

Question to you Dark Cloud: Would you be happier if you were to live under the rule of a foreign culture, that pressed it's ideals of culture and civilization on you, making you believe this is the right way to live, and, when they would finally go, you were left with a halfways urbanized society, which didn't really make you happy and brought you more disadvantages than good? And if they finally left, you found yourself in a country that has many different people lumped together with the only thing uniting them the ruler-drawn frontiers of the former empire?
Or would you rather be happy to live in a society in which you would still lead a sometimes difficult yet simple life, peaceful and prosperous in so many areas? Without anyone interfering in your civilization and ideals just because they don't match with theirs? And without conflicts that needn't be there (of course there were wars in pre-colonial Africa, but not as widespread as today)?
And one final question: If you lived your whole life in the deep jungles of Africa, without knowing the modern western society, and without having serious contact to anybody who represents it, how do you know, and how do you care if your culture was primitive?

(And another question, since when is Saudi-Arabia in Africa? )

[Colon™]

Darkcloud, Saudi Arabia hasn’t taken one single measure to combat terrorism so far, nice allies.

I understand perfectly well principles will get you only so far but whereas US stashes them away when it comes to several of the biggest sources of support of the entities it is fighting, it all of a sudden is principled again when dealing with Somalia?

Looks like battling mosquitoes while ignoring the elephants trampling your farmlands, because that might piss them off.