Building Russia, what communism couldnt accomplish

[faded glory]

Wow I just heard that the Russian economy is growing faster than America (6.2% projected). There plucking more and more homeless people off the streets giving them jobs. Russian government recorded its first ever Surplus last year of a billion dollars. There Oil industry is getting increased demand and consumer spending has been steadily been climbing.

So why couldnt the commies do all this during there 80 year reign?

[Victor Galis]

Russia is growing this fast now because it started low. Under communism boosting industrial and military production meant a lot more than just growing the economy in general.

[Ecthy]

faded glory, developping countries always (often) have a fast growing economy, with higher growth rates than western economies... Russia is very close to being a developping country nowadays... the absoulte figures you have provided are quite impressing though

but then, when the "commies" were on, there just were no homeless people living in Russia or the USSR as a whole... many lived under bad conditions, but there were no homeless ones.. as for the oil production... I'm pretty sure also the USSR had a very huge industrial output, so I wouldn't be surprised if they're just recovering from the damage that the early capitalism phase brought them

some western people argue that formerly comunist countries are so poor, but that is basically just because those countries have a hard time to adapt to the new economic structure... just give it time, and look at what the countries managed to do while they were still under socialist ruling

I tell you, the worst thing about socialism isn't a weak economy, it's the authoritarian state

[faded glory]

Oh no I agree fully ; Communism without dictatorship would have worked much better. But the system creates its own vacuum and madmen seem the only ones to take advantage of the vacuum

[Ecthy]

ok

[Giancarlo]

Those days of starvation are over for Russia. The people are getting a real taste of freedom... 6.2% GDP growth is only attributed with one thing: Supply Side Economics.

Supply side economics is the only system that works, where Keynes and Marx utterly failed, this system will succeed. It truely serves the people.

[KrazyHorse]

That post was classic Gian-speak.

[Ecthy]

*one can hear the crickets chirp as noone's going to reply to G.*

Gian... it is not the superior system that saves Russia... if you had followed the past years, you'd know it was exactly that system that made them 'starve', hitting the badly prepared planned economy severely since there was just no tiem to adapt... it's not as easy to privatize a socialist economy as you'd iamgine...

[Giancarlo]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse


That post was classic Gian-speak.

Alright, smarty, tell me a better system than the supply-side one? I have a feeling you agree with that post I made.

[Ecthy]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse


That post was classic Gian-speak.

stop your crime-think

[Giancarlo]

Originally posted by Ecthelion
*one can hear the crickets chirp as noone's going to reply to G.*

Gian... it is not the superior system that saves Russia... if you had followed the past years, you'd know it was exactly that system that made them 'starve', hitting the badly prepared planned economy severely since there was just no tiem to adapt... it's not as easy to privatize a socialist economy as you'd iamgine...

Maybe you should tell the 40 some odd million that died in Stalin's death camps that! Russia was ruled by klepocrats before Putin. I think Putin ended that era and brought stabliziation with economic growth. Yelstin was a crook.

[Ecthy]

if you were less ignorant of East European history, you'd know there was something like a post-stalinist era... after his death, policies were changed dramatically; do you thin they appreciated all those deaths?

[Az]

Whoo-hoo , so after a drop of 45% after the collapse of the soviet union , the GDP , and the PPP are rising !!!! amazing !

and when oil prices will fall , suddenly , there would be no growth.

I am no fan of Stalin , to say the least. he hurt my family very deeply. Yet he did put Russia in some level of competition , though it was devastated by war and was lagging behind , before the revolution. He educated the Soviet people . Built Factories , railroads etc. He also brought immense hardship , but he helped complete a nuclear bomb in a country that survived a disaster that is similar in scale to the bubonic plague , and is of a more catastrophic nature.

if chrustchev (sp?) would be smarter , the Soviet Union would be alive and well. ( not to mention the idiot brezhniyev )

chrustchev was a good natured man . I am pretty confident about that . He was a rather simple man , though , too simple for the task , I suppose . If I would be in his place ....


for your knowledge , Giancarlo , after Stalin's death , most of the political prisoners were released . people's statuses were reinstated . Brezhniyev was the man that manhadled the SU . Gorbachev played a role similar to Dr. Koborkiyan's (sp?)




stupid family names ....

[Giancarlo]

Originally posted by Ecthelion
if you were less ignorant of East European history, you'd know there was something like a post-stalinist era... after his death, policies were changed dramatically; do you thin they appreciated all those deaths?

I was directly pointing at the Stalinist Era.

The post-Stalinist Era was a mess... the economy was so disorganized that the following leaders just stole. And I don't even know why Communism even lasted till 1991.

and when oil prices will fall

They already have. And it didn't do any damage.

[Garth Vader]

In the early 30's Stalin said they were 50-100 years behind the western countries and if they didn't make up that difference in 10 years they would perish. They almost did.

If he had been kinder and gentler in industrializing they could have easily been overrun by the Germans and they would have killed far more than Stalin did.

After the war 1/7 of their population was dead and the vast majority of their major cities and industrial areas was destroyed. They rebuilt alone, and facing a hostile west armed with nuclear weapons.

How long would it take the US to rebuild the entire east coast up to the great lakes? Think about how long it's going to take to clean up two buildings!

That being said after looking at how they ran their economy I am amazed it lasted as long as it did!