Why has Communism failed everywhere ? A chance for commies to explain

[Ted Striker]

[Jaguar]

Psst, if we both edit our posts, nobody will understand what's going on in this conversation.

[Ted Striker]

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[Agathon]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger
OP: start by reading all the old communism vs capitalism debate threads

There's a deep evil streak in you UR?

[aneeshm]

@ Ted Striker -

India was by no means capitalist at that time . It was a "mixed economy" , a euphemish for super-socialist .

And all these reasons are sorta like excuses for failure . I want to know why the failure came about . And I have a request to make - try no to blame the capitalist nations for the fall of Communism . Capitalism had to struggle through tremendously hostile times - worse than the communists had to face - and still survived and flourished .

You say that it didn't happen the way Marx saw it . Why didn't it happen that is way is the question I'm asking . The replies made are akin to a kid saying "I got a bad grade because the exam was not the way I expected it" . That is stating the obvious . What is the question is , why did the exam not go as planned ?

Also , is it not a failure on the part of Marx that he could not make correct predictions ? If he is incorrect about his predictions , what makes you stick to his ideas in everything else ?

My second question has not yet been answered - why do commies stick to communism if it has failed ( and caused much misery in the world in the process ) ?

[Agathon]

Capitalism had to struggle through tremendously hostile times - worse than the communists had to face - and still survived and flourished

Like looting the rest of the world in the 19th century?

[Gatekeeper]

Dreams founder upon the reality of the human soul.

[aneeshm]

Originally posted by DRoseDARs
Simple reason: Because there's never been a communist country to begin with. They've always been oligarchies or totalitarians regimes or personality cults that only played/play lip service to communist principles.

Does this still not imply the failure of the ideology , as it means that the ideology has failed the test of being implemented ? It does not matter if the ideology failed in implementation or practice , it matters that it failed . I ask why it failed , wherever it did .

[DRoseDARs]

Why has aneeshm failed to stop doing that wierd , and moderately annoying , thing he keeps doing with his puncuation ?

Please , aneeshm , stop that .

[aneeshm]

Originally posted by Agathon

Capitalism had to struggle through tremendously hostile times - worse than the communists had to face - and still survived and flourished

Like looting the rest of the world in the 19th century?

Japan , Honk Kong , America , Chile , they all looted the world , didn't they ? Now so is India , isn't it ( not that India is fully capitalist yet , but it is slowly getting there ) ?

[Agathon]

Now so is India , isn't it ( not that India is fully capitalist yet , but it is slowly getting there ) ?

Would I rather live there, or in Germany?

Tough question...

[DRoseDARs]

Originally posted by aneeshm


Does this still not imply the failure of the ideology , as it means that the ideology has failed the test of being implemented ? It does not matter if the ideology failed in implementation or practice , it matters that it failed . I ask why it failed , wherever it did .

For it to be a worakable ideology, it has to ignore Human nature. It requires everyone sacrifice their own greedy needs in favor of equally addressing everyone's needs. The moment you start having "Haves-and-Have-Nots" or people who are "more equal" than everyone else (comes from the book Animal Farm) then the system ceases to be Communist, instead becoming some bastardized version of it. You wouldn't honestly call Saddam Hussein's elections "democratic" for the same reason: They betrayed the ideals of the democratic system.

Do I feel Communism is better than say Democracy? No, quite the opposite actually, but it irritates me to no end that people continually confuse "Communism" for the governments those people keep pointing to and saying "See?! See?! Communism doesn't work!"

[aneeshm]

Would you rather live in a country which is capitalist ( with some socialist aspects ) which has been independent and economically powerful for a long time , or in one which was subjugated by imperialist statist non-free-trade non-capitalist oppression for a hundred and fifty years , and which after achieving independence chose to cripple itself economically , by dreaming wistfully of a "mixed-economy" utopia , and which has only very recently tired to do away with its socailist legacy ?

Own goal !

[aneeshm]

@ DRoseDARs

I do not confuse these governments with communism as it was envisaged . I associate them with communism as it was practiced ( or calimed to be practiced ) . If communism is going to degenerate into something like those governments every time , is it not a failed ideology ?

[Jon Miller]

because they werenb't true comminsism

also it is likely for any revoltuition to gail

jon Miller