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US Troops Destroy Babylon

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  • Originally posted by Gatekeeper


    I read the article you linked to, and it simply added another dab of paint to the human mosaic I've been putting together since adulthood. The mosaic is mostly dark, evil, with maybe a few grays thrown in to break up the monotony. On the periphery, though, there are a few lighter colors; oranges, golds, blues ... that sort of stuff.

    It's all that keeps my faith in humanity alive. And thank God for that because, right now, I have rather negative feelings toward most of the Western and Northern hemispheres of this world.

    Gatekeeper
    Well dont feel too despondant. In a totaly personal+selfish manner, i'm very happy i didn't have to live under a guy like Saddam Hussain, and had the luxery of living in my own evil country with its own spotted and stained history and dubious foreign policy.
    At least Tony Blair isnt putting me in prison or killing my family(yet ).

    But i would say that its good to feel depressed about the role that the western world, led principly by America these days, takes.
    Politicians will harp on about our freedoms+democracy etc etc.
    Its quite a realisation when you being to let it sink in that these freedoms we enjoy come at a very high price for many people in the world. It goes back hundreds of years, to the discovery of the New World etc.
    Since then western governments+kings have been using their technolgy to steal from the rest of the world.
    Its sad that hundreds of years later its basicaly the same driving force that we let our governments use.
    Just so we can drive a nice car to work, just so we can say 'hay the rest of the world! look we are free!'.

    To really live in a free+democratic world, we're going to have to change pretty much everything about the way we live.

    Two thirds of the worlds wealth used by one third of the worlds population will mean we will never have a 'free' world.
    You can be sure the people that run it this way dont want it either.
    'The very basis of the liberal idea – the belief of individual freedom is what causes the chaos' - William Kristol, son of the founder of neo-conservitivism, talking about neo-con ideology and its agenda for you.info here. prove me wrong.

    Bush's Republican=Neo-con for all intent and purpose. be afraid.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Urban Ranger
      Did you miss all those wars, invasions, covert interventions, and assorted other nasty operations that was carried out by the US of A after WWII?
      Sure, some interventions occured but, by and large, they have been good and have resulted in the defeat of communist (or pro-communist) forces. I'd compare the results of US interventions (South Korea, Taiwan, most of Latin America) to Communist China's interventions (North Korea, Vietnam, Tibet) any day. Even the non military interventions have gone well (Greece, Turkey, Indonesia). to compare how have the Soviet Union's foreign adventures gone (Eastern Europe, Mongolia, Laos, Cambodia, Tanzania, etc)?
      Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

      Comment


      • What is wrong with Mongolia?
        "I have been reading up on the universe and have come to the conclusion that the universe is a good thing." -- Dissident
        "I never had the need to have a boner." -- Dissident
        "I have never cut off my penis when I was upset over a girl." -- Dis

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Evil Knevil
          Surely you're not saying they had do destroy Babylon to save it?
          Hard to say someone destroyed something which was destroyed 2500 years ago. More likely the American unintentionally damaged some archeolgical ruins while the vast majority remained unharmed. Hoever, pointing out things like that would require objectivity so I understand your difficulty in comprending it.
          Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by DRoseDARs
            That is unquestionably 'intentional' behaviour. I'm sure there are other examples, but suffice it to say this was a serious muck-up. Someone in the decision-making cirlces needs to be held accountable. Hell, the base commanders should have shown better judgement given they are commanding officers. They have some limited decision-making authority, don't they?
            Please explain how the individual actions of a few law breakers is the fault of the entire US military. I am certain that, when ever found, they are punishede according to law.No, one condones looting or trophy taking and the military makes it extraordinarially dfficult for those people to get away with their thefts. They search mail before it is sent, they search every person before they return home, and they conduct periodic searchs to find people who are attempting to steal relics.
            Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by DRoseDARs
              That is unquestionably 'intentional' behaviour. I'm sure there are other examples, but suffice it to say this was a serious muck-up. Someone in the decision-making cirlces needs to be held accountable. Hell, the base commanders should have shown better judgement given they are commanding officers. They have some limited decision-making authority, don't they?
              Please explain how the individual actions of a few law breakers is the fault of the entire US military. I am certain that, when ever found, they are punishede according to law.No, one condones looting or trophy taking and the military makes it extraordinarially dfficult for those people to get away with their thefts. They search mail before it is sent, they search every person before they return home, and they conduct periodic searchs to find people who are attempting to steal relics.
              Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Spiffor
                What is wrong with Mongolia?
                Nothing, other then it was a poverty sticken Soviet puppet state which totally failed to meet the needs of its population.
                Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Oerdin
                  No, one condones looting or trophy taking and the military makes it extraordinarially dfficult for those people to get away with their thefts. They search mail before it is sent, they search every person before they return home, and they conduct periodic searchs to find people who are attempting to steal relics.
                  First time I hear of this. You could and should really expect it, but all I see and hear in media reports, including your blog, SOP descriptions and live interviews with soldiers and officers, suggest between the lines that your military don't give a **** about colateral damage - including human life, private property and cultural heritage.
                  So get your Naomi Klein books and move it or I'll seriously bash your faces in! - Supercitizen to stupid students
                  Be kind to the nerdiest guy in school. He will be your boss when you've grown up!

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Oerdin
                    Nothing, other then it was a poverty sticken Soviet puppet state which totally failed to meet the needs of its population.
                    Considering that the heath system covers 95% of their population despite the nomadism, I'm not sure it "totally failed to meet the needs of its population".

                    As for being a puppet State, that's what happens to pretty much all weak countries the two superpowers went to, so that's not really a point of comparison where the US is superior to the USSR.

                    And finally, Mongolia had little prospects for becoming rich: having the lowest population density in the world, and a culture that strongly emphasizes respect of nature will prevent the rise of industry (and we know the Sovs were very keen of industry). It quite restricts the prospects of economic growth.
                    "I have been reading up on the universe and have come to the conclusion that the universe is a good thing." -- Dissident
                    "I never had the need to have a boner." -- Dissident
                    "I have never cut off my penis when I was upset over a girl." -- Dis

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Oerdin
                      They search mail before it is sent, they search every person before they return home, and they conduct periodic searchs to find people who are attempting to steal relics.
                      "I have been reading up on the universe and have come to the conclusion that the universe is a good thing." -- Dissident
                      "I never had the need to have a boner." -- Dissident
                      "I have never cut off my penis when I was upset over a girl." -- Dis

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Oerdin
                        Sure, some interventions occured but, by and large, they have been good and have resulted in the defeat of communist (or pro-communist) forces. I'd compare the results of US interventions (South Korea, Taiwan, most of Latin America) to Communist China's interventions (North Korea, Vietnam, Tibet) any day. Even the non military interventions have gone well (Greece, Turkey, Indonesia). to compare how have the Soviet Union's foreign adventures gone (Eastern Europe, Mongolia, Laos, Cambodia, Tanzania, etc)?
                        Of course the question is if some of these states wouldn´t have been better off with a communist (or socialist) government.

                        Afghanistan for example took a turn for worse just a few years after the sowjets left (and the Taliban came to power)
                        Tamsin (Lost Girl): "I am the Harbinger of Death. I arrive on winds of blessed air. Air that you no longer deserve."
                        Tamsin (Lost Girl): "He has fallen in battle and I must take him to the Einherjar in Valhalla"

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Spiffor

                          Could you tell me of any country whose intentions are NOT always suspect?
                          San Marino?
                          Vive la liberte. Noor Inayat Khan, Dachau.

                          ...patriotism is not enough. I must have no hatred or bitterness towards anyone. Edith Cavell, 1915

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Oerdin


                            Hard to say someone destroyed something which was destroyed 2500 years ago. More likely the American unintentionally damaged some archeolgical ruins while the vast majority remained unharmed. Hoever, pointing out things like that would require objectivity so I understand your difficulty in comprending it.
                            Hmm. I was exaggerating to prove a point, and so show the logical flaw in the argument. "They unintentionally damaged Babylon to save it", doesn't quite roll off the tongue. I never said that the damage caused was deliberate, just that it's tragic it wasn't prevented, and that many people didn't care. Also I was drunk.
                            Res ipsa loquitur

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Spiffor

                              Could you tell me of any country whose intentions are NOT always suspect?

                              quote:
                              Originally posted by molly bloom

                              San Marino?
                              Wales? all we want is for you to sing along with us and play rugby against us and have a beer afterwards?
                              'The very basis of the liberal idea – the belief of individual freedom is what causes the chaos' - William Kristol, son of the founder of neo-conservitivism, talking about neo-con ideology and its agenda for you.info here. prove me wrong.

                              Bush's Republican=Neo-con for all intent and purpose. be afraid.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by child of Thor


                                Wales? all we want is for you to sing along with us and play rugby against us and have a beer afterwards?
                                Ha!

                                You also set covetous eyes on Shrewsbury, Gloucester and Chester.


                                Offa's D!ke is there for a reason, laverbread munchers!
                                Vive la liberte. Noor Inayat Khan, Dachau.

                                ...patriotism is not enough. I must have no hatred or bitterness towards anyone. Edith Cavell, 1915

                                Comment

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