New poker thread

[KrazyHorse]

I've only had a few times where I got a really good read on somebody because of a physical reaction. It's really amazing when it happens.

One of the times it was on a raised pot in a NL tourney. Only me and one other guy in the pot. I'm holding A-2 (forgive me; there were only 3 people at the table at this point). Flop comes A-Q-7. I bet slightly more than the pot, he comes back over the top of me for all his chips (we were holding similar stacks). I looked at him as I said "I'm holding an Ace. What do you think about that". He said "I don't know", but his voice broke with tension as he said it. It was clear as day to me that I should call him at that point, and I was right. He was holding A-5. We were almost guaranteed to split the pot, and I thus had odds to call him. As it turns out, I spiked a 2 and took the whole thing, but the important part was that his weakness was as clear as day in his voice. I knew he either had a really weak ace or a queen. No way was he in strength at that point.

[KrazyHorse]

Reading somebody's hand online due to betting happens all the time to me though.

One of the funniest things I've seen was today in a single table 30+3 NL tournament. There are 6 people left. Pot is raised ~3 times size of BB. Only 2 people stay in pot (I'm not one of them). One is what seems to be a decent (not great by any means) player. The other one is a wacko. Flop comes A-8-8. Decent player is first to act. He bets 1/2 size of pot. Wacko raises him 2 times pot. Decent player calls. Turn comes A. Decent player checks. Wacko raises same amount as last time. At this point I think it was clear to anybody with half a brain that the decent player was holding an ace and the wacko was holding an 8. Decent player comes over the top for all in as though we needed any further confirmation. I literally said "duh" to myself. Wacko calls. Of course, wacko is holding 7-8 offsuit and decent player is holding A-10.

All I could think to myself was that my dead grandmother knew decent player was holding a ****ing ace. Why didn't wacko?

[DanS]

Mistakes

One of many. I was too cute by half and it probably cost me the pot.

Seat 1: csmoke33 ($3,015 in chips)
Seat 2: ronbigt ($1,610 in chips)
Seat 4: f-tank ($2,150 in chips)
Seat 6: yourmom1 ($1,045 in chips)
Seat 7: elcapiton777 ($2,275 in chips)
Seat 8: opah ($2,670 in chips)
Seat 9: baba xx ($1,105 in chips)
Seat 10: DanS [8H,6S] ($1,130 in chips)
ANTES/BLINDS
baba xx posts blind ($25), DanS posts blind ($50).

PRE-FLOP
csmoke33 folds, ronbigt calls $50, f-tank calls $50, yourmom1 folds, elcapiton777 folds, opah calls $50, baba xx folds, DanS checks.

FLOP [board cards 8D,QS,8S ]
DanS checks, ronbigt checks, f-tank checks, opah checks.

TURN [board cards 8D,QS,8S,10D ]
DanS bets $200, ronbigt bets $400, f-tank folds, opah folds, DanS bets $880 and is all-in, ronbigt bets $1,160 and is all-in.

RIVER [board cards 8D,QS,8S,10D,KH ]

SHOWDOWN
ronbigt shows [ 10C,10S ]
DanS shows [ 8H,6S ]
ronbigt wins $480, ronbigt wins $2,385.
SUMMARY
Dealer: opah
Pot: $2,865
csmoke33, loses $0
ronbigt, bets $1,610, collects $2,865, net $1,255
f-tank, loses $50
yourmom1, loses $0
elcapiton777, loses $0
opah, loses $50
baba xx, loses $25
DanS, loses $1,130

[David Floyd]

I disagree wholeheartedly with one piece of advice given by DF. While raising more does tend to drive more weak players out of a pot, it can also be an obvious tell that you don't want callers. Unless you mix it up with deliberate overbets on really really strong hands, it's a losing play. Try to have a pretty standard raise preflop. Don't structure your preflop raises based on the strength of the hand when you're playing people who take note of that sort of thing (which I can tell you that I do).

I understand your point, on the other hand, though, you're the one who suggested raising 4x the BB with AA. I would assume that's not your standard raise, right?

There are also situations where you may want to go all-in based on your position - you know you have the best hand, and you don't mind all the money going in pre-flop if someone's dumb enough to call, but you also know that your hand can be drawn out on and don't want to have to worry about it post-flop. That's my point re: JJ. Bet big, and if someone reraises, correctly assuming you don't have AA/KK and are somewhat weak, then put them all in. They most likely don't have AA, KK, or QQ, and they most likely don't have a hand with which to call your all in, and EVEN IF they do, your JJ is still going to be the best hand preflop.

At the same time, though, you're right about the size of raises. My post-flop raises tend to be fairly consistent whether or not I'm bluffing.

The weaker the player the harder it is to tell what they have just because of how they bet.

That isn't my experience. Weak players bet when they are strong, and check when they are weak.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by David Floyd


I understand your point, on the other hand, though, you're the one who suggested raising 4x the BB with AA. I would assume that's not your standard raise,

Yes it is.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by David Floyd

That isn't my experience. Weak players bet when they are strong, and check when they are weak.

The opposite is more generally true, actually. Especially when they're losing.

I find that weak players make such a broad range of plays (since they themselves don't understand the strength of their hands and wouldn't know how to bet even if they did) that they are much more difficult to read than a mediocre player

[DanS]

I would agree that people like to be all-in at the lower level tables on-line. I don't know why this little quirk of human psychology is as it is.

Also, the common wisdom is that beginners tend to be erratic and that you just play them straight up and be patient.

[David Floyd]

DanS, your last point is pretty much spot-on, in my experience, with the addition that the betting style of beginners tends to create extremely easy tells.

[KrazyHorse]

That's not what he said.

[Sikander]

In Vegas watch out for pros at all stakes. I've seen them at low stakes games. The wormy sort of character who I would have destroyed in my poker playing prime but who could be dangerous to me now that some rust has accumulated. He'll know how to play well (solid fundamentals) but at low stakes the odds are that he won't be inspired unless he's on his way up.

Be willing to walk away from the table if it isn't going well, or something has changed for the worse (dealer or player you don't like has arrived). Remember well that scene in Rounders where all of the NY small time pros run into one another in Atlantic City and proceed to carve up the few guys at the table who aren't part of the fraternity. There are several sorts of numerical disadvantages. One is your chip pile vs your opponent's pile. Another more serious one is you vs a couple of friends. They can work you over much more efficiently than either of them can alone. Watch for this at higher stakes especially.

Anyway, I found that I made the most money in Vegas by hitting and running, never spending more than 2 hours at a single table, and the vast majority of the time an hour or less. Whenever I have camped out I have lost money. Wear a watch, there are no clocks there.

[Urban Ranger]

What's "wheelhouse?"

[DanS]

I saw a funny hand yesterday before the flop. #1 bets $200, #2 goes all-in (about $3,000), #3 goes all-in (about $10,000), #1 calls all. #1 turns over 6-3 offsuit. #2 turns over K-K. #3 turns over K-K. #1 wins the pot with two pair.

[Shi Huangdi]

Won $800 in play money on Ultimatebet, will see if I have the nerve soon to actually putting money in..

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger
What's "wheelhouse?"

10 through K

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Shi Huangdi
Won $800 in play money on Ultimatebet, will see if I have the nerve soon to actually putting money in..

Meaningless. I won 350$ real money yesterday in 4 hours