What, no thread yet on Apple's latest monstrocities?

[Agathon]

I really want to buy a flash music player but I'll wait until 5-10 GB players become available.

* wonders how Oerdin will get 5-10GB of music while looking at his avatar.

[MORON]

What good are macs anyway.....give me BIG STEEL, FANZZZZZ and SPACE!!!!11!!1 Computer should look like something that is going to eat you, rather than something that look like wussy settlers....

imac's transparency is probably the only good mac design feature.

[Patriqvium]

The mini-Mac could be somewhat interesting as a neutral-looking DVD player / TV capturer-DVD burner / all-round living room multimedia box, but that would require adding a digital TV card, the add-on DVD-R drive and wireless network card and a display adapter more capable than the vanilla Radeon 9200 they are sporting. Constructing a similar box out of PC parts is probably cheaper anyway, so no real reason to bother for me.

Edit: Apparently it's not, at least in Finland. This might re-invoke some of my interest.

The iPod Shuffle, on the other hand, looks like a seriously bastardized vibrator-electric toothbrush hybrid and generally lacks the Bling Bling appeal which made the iPod mini apparently popular among MTV artists and their followers. Got to congratulate Apple's marketing, though: making the lack of a screen and the forced shuffling a marketing gimmick of some sort is just brilliant.

[Agathon]

The mini mac is interesting solely for the way it is being marketed. It's basically an emac with no screen, keyboard or mouse.

What's quite interesting is the psychology of the packaging. It's a weeny little box, not much bigger than the computer itself. That tells you more about the marketing than any sort of specs.

People are used to buying computers in big boxes: even laptops come in ridiculously large packages (I've complained about this for years). The mac mini package is so small that it isn't much bigger than the box for some Palm Pilots. In other words, it's the sort of thing that anyone could buy without making a big deal of it. I've seen women carrying perfume boxes that are bigger.

I think the idea is to make people think that it is a small purchase, even if it is a fully featured computer. If people will whack down $400 bucks on an ipod as an impulse buy, there's no reason why they won't spend $100 more for one of these, especially since they won't have to make a big deal of carrying it out of the store.

It's a psychological illusion: it appears smaller than it really is, and given that most people associate size with price, it looks cheaper than it is. Which would seem the bigger purchase to you? Some massive Gateway box that cost about the same, or something smaller than a box of tissues?

[Asher]

Originally posted by Agathon
That tells you more about the marketing than any sort of specs.

That's what Apple's all about, in every product. Period.

People are used to buying computers in big boxes: even laptops come in ridiculously large packages (I've complained about this for years).

Another exhibit why Philosophy majors should not run companies.

You honestly think nobody has looked into reducing the laptop packaging size? You don't think companies/retailers would love to fit more products in smaller spaces with smaller shipping and storage costs?

They're in huge boxes to prevent damage to the product in shipping. Cost analysis has been done many, many times to determine the best use of money versus box size and rate of product damage...

It's a psychological illusion: it appears smaller than it really is, and given that most people associate size with price, it looks cheaper than it is. Which would seem the bigger purchase to you? Some massive Gateway box that cost about the same, or something smaller than a box of tissues

The simple flaw with this argument is the reality.

Nintendo tried the cute tiny box and a "cheap" price, and look how well it worked for them.

Hint: they're quite far behind the big, ugly, monstrous Microsoft, more expensive product.

[Agathon]

This shows exactly why you are hopeless with consumer electronics. You constantly complain about the lack of features that only a small number of people want, when the reality is that most people (i.e. the people with all the money) just want something simple.

I'll bet that the flash ipod sells millions just like the bigger ones have. And Apple will end up owning the lion's share of the digital music player market because other companies are too dumb to get it right.

After all you've been saying for over two years now that Apple's music players would flop. But there's no sign of that and they are now in a much better position than they were a year ago, despite the efforts of the lamers like Creative.

I guess that Apple's continued success shows just how much you know about consumer electronics in the real world - i.e. very little. It must jar you to be so consistently wrong.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Agathon
This shows exactly why you are hopeless with consumer electronics. You constantly complain about the lack of features that only a small number of people want, when the reality is that most people (i.e. the people with all the money) just want something simple.

A quick survey shows me most people want a screen on a player that can hold hundreds of songs, because scrolling blindly is both stupid and painful.

I'll bet that the flash ipod sells millions just like the bigger ones have. And Apple will end up owning the lion's share of the digital music player market because other companies are too dumb to get it right.

Dominating the market means the other companies are too dumb to get it right?

Clearly you'd use the same logic to say that other OS companies are too dumb to get it right to take markethsare away from MS?

After all you've been saying for over two years now that Apple's music players would flop.

Strawman -- quote me once saying that.

I've said that the iPod is overpriced and lacking in features and batterylife, nothing about it flopping.

I guess that Apple's continued success shows just how much you know about consumer electronics in the real world - i.e. very little. It must jar you to be so consistently wrong.

The simple fact is I said nothing of the sort of the iPod failing. In fact, it's a rather brilliant marketing move on Apple's behalf. They are great at that sort of thing.

Trick a bunch of idiots into buying something without features, without battery life, locking them into your little world, and then charge more than you should for it.

My consistent logical arguments must jar you to force you to constantly construct strawmen and ignore the real debates.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Agathon

I really want to buy a flash music player but I'll wait until 5-10 GB players become available.

* wonders how Oerdin will get 5-10GB of music while looking at his avatar.

Why I'll transfer it off of my hardrive of course.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Kontiki
I too think the Apple stuff looks great.

Deciding how to spend over a hundred dollars based on how cool the case looks

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Agathon

The mini is underpowered for the price point...if Apple is going to do a low-end machine, they can't put something out that people will be able to take potshots at ("it's got a generation-old processor and half the memory and storage of a cheaper Dell") Especially since OS X runs very badly on limited RAM.

OS X will run absolutely fine on that machine. I've used OS X on an emac with a slower processor and the same amount of RAM and it is fine for everyday use.

If you wanted to do some heavy graphics, you might think of putting in 256MB of RAM - otherwise it's fine for normal use. And you get the latest edition of the iapps.

It only has 256MB? My three-year-old PC has better specs, and it was under $1000. THREE YEAR OLD.

[Dinner]

I'm interested in seeing the next generation of flash players. I suspect even a poor product like the Shuffle will cause the other makers to come out with a new generation of products which has to be good for consumers. I suspect it won’t be long until a 2nd edition of the shuffle comes out with a screen, maybe a year or so, due to increased competition and Apple’s eroding market share in the music player business.

You know I don't dislike Apple nor really like them either. The main reason I haven't bought an Ipod is because I don't like how Apple tries to lock me into their special format and how they want me to rebuy the hundreds of CDs I already own. not to mention the other songs I have "acquired".

[Kontiki]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker


Deciding how to spend over a hundred dollars based on how cool the case looks

Being an adult with a disposable income

[Spiffor]

I thought the Ipod was MP3 compatible? When I looked about it, recently, the shops I went to wrote clearly in the product description that the Ipod was compatible with the MP3 format.

[Agathon]

My consistent logical arguments must jar you to force you to constantly construct strawmen and ignore the real debates.

This from the guy who flat out invents ****. You have been saying for two years now that others would overtake the ipod. I guess you'll have to postpone that for another year.

Pretty funny if you ask me.

Then again, you're just an anti-Apple lunatic, so it's hard to take anything you say seriously. I don't like Microsoft's business practices or Windows, but I am a loyal, paying Microsoft customer who has shelled out (and been mostly pleased with) the last few versions of Office for the mac.

Apple could land men on Mars, and you would complain.

Oerdin:

You know I don't dislike Apple nor really like them either. The main reason I haven't bought an Ipod is because I don't like how Apple tries to lock me into their special format and how they want me to rebuy the hundreds of CDs I already own

That's not a real reason. In what way do Apple want you to rebuy your CDs. Presumably you would just rip them like everyone else does. You can rip them in to whatever format you like (mp3, AAC, WAV, AIFF, Apple Lossless), except WMA (which itunes will convert for you if you have any of them).

If you already have files in the above formats you can use them on an ipod. The only proprietary format on the ipod consists the songs you buy from the itunes music store. You don't have to buy any of those if you don't want to. Just rip your CDs or use the files you already have.

[Imran Siddiqui]

It only has 256MB?

It's upgradeable to 1 GB of RAM. 256 is just the initial specs.