Breaking News: Bush Personally Authorized Torture

[Shi Huangdi]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

Western police forces use sleep deprivation

In the US, I'm sure such tactics would be considered cruel and unusual and barred under the 8th Amendment.

Ok, ok, setting aside the discussion torture, those who say it isn't cannot deny that AT LEAST it is inhuman treatment. Doesn't it bother you that the President is authorizing things in these camps that our Constitution wouldn't allow? Especially seeing how so many of those picked up aren't even Al Queda?

It is very nasty treatment, and i agree that it should not be used or done. But I don't think these offenses rise to the level of torture.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

Western police forces use sleep deprivation

In the US, I'm sure such tactics would be considered cruel and unusual and barred under the 8th Amendment.

Ok, ok, setting aside the discussion torture, those who say it isn't cannot deny that AT LEAST it is inhuman treatment. Doesn't it bother you that the President is authorizing things in these camps that our Constitution wouldn't allow? Especially seeing how so many of those picked up aren't even Al Queda?

What bothers me is that so many picked up are not AQ. What bothers me is that many picked up were beaten, or effectively raped. That pisses me off, no end.

Am I fussed that someone caught red handed committing murder in Detroit, or Toronto, is deprived of sleep while being interogated? Not in the least, and nor do I shed a tear that a fundy who got caught with a bomb on the way to blow a bunch of people up, or one caught making bombns in a bomb factory, or... is made to feel a bit uncomfortable.

[Imran Siddiqui]

But I don't think these offenses rise to the level of torture.

That's another debate... but inhuman treatment is also a violation of international law (torture is just worse). So whatever way you do define it, it is an illegal practice.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Am I fussed that someone caught red handed committing murder in Detroit, or Toronto, is deprived of sleep while being interogated? Not in the least, and nor do I shed a tear that a fundy who got caught with a bomb on the way to blow a bunch of people up, or one caught making bombns in a bomb factory, or... is made to feel a bit uncomfortable.

That's nice, but they still have rights. We don't live in a dictatorship so everyone gets the same rights, no matter how much we may despise them.

[Patroklos]

but they still have rights

actually, no they don't.

[Patroklos]

Krazywhatever

Except of course, that

[MrFun]

I guess I'm abivalent about this order from President Bush.

On the one hand, you cannot expect to get critical information by asking suspects of terrorist activities nicely for the info, with lemonade and cookies.


On the other hand, you cannot retort to excessively inhumane actions to extract information from suspects.

But from what Shi has pointed out, the specific actions that Bush has authorized are really mild compared to what would be much more wrongful and unjustified.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

Am I fussed that someone caught red handed committing murder in Detroit, or Toronto, is deprived of sleep while being interogated? Not in the least, and nor do I shed a tear that a fundy who got caught with a bomb on the way to blow a bunch of people up, or one caught making bombns in a bomb factory, or... is made to feel a bit uncomfortable.

That's nice, but they still have rights. We don't live in a dictatorship so everyone gets the same rights, no matter how much we may despise them.

My point exactly, is that some of these techniques are used by your own police. Other techniques banned in your own land are used in other western nations.

Do you think that terror suspects in Afghanistan or Iraq deserve rights that a prisoner in Detroit, Toronto, London, Paris, or Berlin might not receive?

Do you want to tie your own hands behind your backs, and try to fight a war, again?

[Imran Siddiqui]

My point exactly, is that some of these techniques are used by your own police. Other techniques banned in your own land are used in other western nations.

And if they are used by own police then it is done against the law. Hell, the NYPD shoved a broom up Abner Loiama's ass. Just because they did it, doesn't mean it isn't illegal.

Do you think that terror suspects in Afghanistan or Iraq deserve rights that a prisoner in Detroit, Toronto, London, Paris, or Berlin might not receive?

The terror suspects deserve the rights that a prisoner in the US ought to have if his incarciration is by US troops.

And after all, the European Court on Human Rights has called this behavior (the hooded prisoners, sleep and food deprivation, etc) inhumane behavior violating the law BACK IN 1980 in the case of Ireland v. United Kingdom. If police are still doing them stuff in London, Paris, and Berlin, they are violating their law.

[MrFun]

I would love to stay and watch NYE and Imran exchange blows, but I do have to get to bed soon.

[Patroklos]

Imran, if there are a few sane people out there that have decided the laws you refer to are useless, self-defeating, illogical bull**** good on them. The world has to turn even if people like you (in this instance) are intent on stopping it.

Other people break sane laws in that time honored tradition revered here on Apolyton known as civil disobediance, I will apply the concept here to our valiant intel guys and troops risking jail and estrangement for your own good.

[Imran Siddiqui]

if there are a few sane people out there that have decided the laws you refer to are useless, self-defeating, illogical bull**** good on them.

You mean those people who would like to narrow the definition of torture anything 'bad' countries do, a nothing that us 'good' countries do (defining bad and good countries using our terminology, of course). Sane people who want to be able to do whatever they can do right up to the line that torture 'may' be?

I thought we were supposed to be the (actual) good guys? When did that change?

So when are we beheading Al Queda members. After all, the laws against torture are "useless, self-defeating, and illogical bull****". So let's get cracking with the hot pokers and baseball bats!! Let er rip!

Other people break sane laws in that time honored tradition revered here on Apolyton known as civil disobediance, I will apply the concept here to our valiant intel guys and troops risking jail and estrangement for your own good.

Inflicting inhuman treatment as civil disobediance.

What a crock of BS!

I'm glad there are sane people out there that know that this type of behavior cannnot be tolerated and trying to skirt them hypocracy of the greatest kind for the spreader of 'freedom' around the world.

If it is such a good idea to throw the law out the window, maybe we should inflict inhuman treatment on the world's most dangerous human... that's right, President Bush .

[Ted Striker]

.

[Ted Striker]

.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Ted Striker
BS

1) Prove it

There are frequent reports of it being used in lockdown situations, in places like Marion, Pelican Bay, Lexington, etc. It is considered illegal, but prisoners in these places are considered the worst of the worst, and their testimony is not considered credible.