Red Cross: Torture at Gitmo

[Ramo]

And you're missing the pre-condition:
(2) “severe mental pain or suffering” means the prolonged mental harm caused by or resulting from—

It's torture to constantly threaten a person with death every day for a month. Similarly, it's torture to kill people in extremely painful ways.

Killing people is not necessarily torture by the Federal Anti-Torture Statute.

[Kuciwalker]

What if I say "I'll kill you if you run away"?

What if I say "I'll kill you if you don't talk"?

[Ramo]

I don't know about the first, but the second meets the pre-condition IMO. I don't know much about torture law, so I can't tell you for sure.

What's your point?

[the_ceebs]

Dinodoc you said

You've laid out a fairly convincing case for the Taliban fighters but I fail to see anything that covers the Al Qaeda fighters.

Now the geneva convention says

6. Inhabitants of a non-occupied territory, who on the approach of the enemy spontaneously take up arms to resist the invading forces, without having had time to form themselves into regular armed units, provided they carry arms openly and respect the laws and customs of war.

It could be argued that Al Quaida fall under this section of the geneva convention

[laurentius]

I dont agree. Al-Qaeda operatives seldom "carry arms openly" or "respect the laws and customs of war".

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Ramo
I don't know about the first, but the second meets the pre-condition IMO. I don't know much about torture law, so I can't tell you for sure.

What's your point?

That it's absurd.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Saying "I'll kill you if you don't talk" continually (and meaning it) isn't psychological torture? What planet did you come from?

[Gibsie]

Yes, the very notion that the US tortures people in any way is absurd, as is the notion that it'd be wrong to do it, and that they deserve to be treated with some humanity. It's all absurd!

[Hurricane]

Telling a suspect that he will be killed unless he talks is definitely illegal in all Western European countries. I would expect it is so in the US, too, but then again, who knows.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Saying "I'll kill you if you don't talk" continually (and meaning it) isn't psychological torture? What planet did you come from?

By their wording, saying "The guards will shoot you if you're escaping" is torture.

Which is, btw, absurd.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
OK. Well, I guess we can't shoot escaping prisoners then, else they'd be tortured into staying.

Incarceration is torture if one decides to torture the definition.

[laurentius]

Why is this all so absurd to some people? Torture is not absurd, even if its conducted by Gods chosen people, the Americans.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by laurentius
Why is this all so absurd to some people? Torture is not absurd, even if its conducted by Gods chosen people, the Americans.

My point is that the definition of torture you've espoused is so broad that it labels acts that clearly are NOT torture as torture - i.e., it's absurd.

I could say "brown stuff is pollution", and it certainly would be true of some brown stuff, maybe even a lot of brown stuff, but it's still an absurd definition.

[laurentius]

What is absurd about the GC? The only absurd thing is the new term the American media has come up with, "torture lite"

There are some very simple rules everyone must follow. There is no "grey" zone. What is happening in Gitmo is simply criminal and anyone working there should be tried in Hague.

[Kuciwalker]

(1) “torture” means an act committed by a person acting under the color of law specifically intended to inflict severe physical or mental pain or suffering (other than pain or suffering incidental to lawful sanctions) upon another person within his custody or physical control;
(2) “severe mental pain or suffering” means the prolonged mental harm caused by or resulting from—
(A) the intentional infliction or threatened infliction of severe physical pain or suffering;
(B) the administration or application, or threatened administration or application, of mind-altering substances or other procedures calculated to disrupt profoundly the senses or the personality;
(C) the threat of imminent death; or
(D) the threat that another person will imminently be subjected to death, severe physical pain or suffering, or the administration or application of mind-altering substances or other procedures calculated to disrupt profoundly the senses or personality;

I'm pointing out that this definition of torture (I'm pretty sure it's not from the GC, btw) is absurd because it includes things that clearly aren't torture.