What is the most numerically surpsing victory in military history?

[Vesayen]

I am adding an addendum to victory that the "winning" side must survive so Thermopalie does not count if you consider the fight Spartan fury VS the Persians because no Sparts lived......


I am having trouble deciding what it would be.

[Al B. Sure!]

Pizarro vs. Incans... 108 vs. 80,000 thats 1:741

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Albert Speer
Pizarro vs. Incans... 108 vs. 80,000 thats 1:741

But that wasn't so surprising, given the Spaniard's vast advantage of technology and their cultural advantage of deceit. The Incans were rather naive, to say the least.

I'm more impressed by such victories where the opponents are more or less at technological and cultural equality.

Alexander's victory at Gaugamela certainly ranks high on the list. 47,000 Macedonians crushing an army of 110,000+ Persians, all through Alexander's ingenious tactics (with a healthy dose of Darius' overconfidence).

[Last Conformist]

If technologically comparable adversaries are required, Charles XII's victory over the Russians at Narva is fairly cool - the Swedish army was outnumbered 4-1. Then, the Russians weren't expecting to be attacked.

[Solver]

But that wasn't so surprising, given the Spaniard's vast advantage of technology and their cultural advantage of deceit. The Incans were rather naive, to say the least.

I'm more impressed by such victories where the opponents are more or less at technological and cultural equality.

I would agree, except that the Southern American cases are really more of a surprise. You know what 80k people could do to 108, no matter if the 108 had horses and firearms. The reason they won, though, was the naivity of their enemy, of course.

[Serb]

Originally posted by Last Conformist
If technologically comparable adversaries are required, Charles XII's victory over the Russians at Narva is fairly cool - the Swedish army was outnumbered 4-1. Then, the Russians weren't expecting to be attacked.

Bah
The best army of Europe made banch of untrained peasants who took arms for the first time in their lives, flee.

Really surprising.

Sweden lost this war when Peter the Great created modern (and the best army in the world for that time I should add) army.

[GePap]

108 Spaniards DID NOT conquer the Inca Empire, for gods sake. What those guys did do was kidnap the victorious brother- but that was by no means the end of the story.

And it was not naivete on the part of the Inca, it was hubris- after all, what could a bunch of funny looking foreighnres do to the Great Inca?

[Odin]

the battle of Alesia where Caesar beat a Celt army 5 times larger than his, and captured thier millitary leader Vercingetorix

[Sprayber]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
vast advantage of technology and their cultural advantage of deceit. The Incans were rather naive, to say the least.

I honestly don't know a lot about Incan history, but how do you create and maintain an empire in any culture by being so naive. I might understand it at first but fairly quickly wouldn't they start to think things were a bit suspicious? IIRC didn't they europeans usually ally themselves with other native tribes that had hatreds towards the Incans or was that the Aztecs in Mexico. Im just curious.

[Provost Harrison]

Agincourt

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Sprayber
I honestly don't know a lot about Incan history, but how do you create and maintain an empire in any culture by being so naive. I might understand it at first but fairly quickly wouldn't they start to think things were a bit suspicious? IIRC didn't they europeans usually ally themselves with other native tribes that had hatreds towards the Incans or was that the Aztecs in Mexico. Im just curious.

The naivite came from trusting the Spaniards. When Atawualpa met Pizarro, his 80K were meant as a display of loyalty to him (as the Spaniards were aware that a civil war had just occured). The 80K were unarmed, so they weren't really meant as a display of military force.

Atawualpa attended under the assumption that he would be treated like a god-kind by the Spaniards. He had no inkling of their true intent. So when Pizarro seized him, the Incans didn't know what to do--they weren't going to risk the life of their god-king, now hostage, by attacking the Spanish. When the Spanish displayed their awesome firepower, the likes of which the Incans had never seen, it terrified them and sent them into a panicked flight.

So as GePap said, there wasn't really a battle. The Spaniards lured in Atawualpa, seized him hostage, and then dispersed the crowd with their guns.

Beyond that, Pizarro extorted the Incans for gold and silver for the return of their emperor. The Incans gave him everything he demanded, but Pizarro just had Atawualpa strangled anyway.

[Agathon]

Agincourt

Not really. That was due to French incompetence. Henry chose his ground well. The battlefield was a kind of muddy bottleneck with the English at the narrow end. There's considerable evidence that most French casualties were caused by the resulting crush.

The story that the English archers wrought havoc on the French is just a story. I've seen various demonstrations that show that it was almost impossible for such arrows to penetrate the armour of the time.

Marathon has to be a good candidate.

[KrazyHorse]

Would you turn a king loose when you're sitting with 108 men in his country?

I'd have strangled the sob too.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
Would you turn a king loose when you're sitting with 108 men in his country?

I'd have strangled the sob too.

Actually, by that time the Spanish were sending Pizarro reinforcements.

It would have been suicide to kill Atawualpa otherwise, since there would be nothing stopping the Incans from trying to slaughter the Spaniards.

[KrazyHorse]

I've seen various demonstrations that show that it was almost impossible for such arrows to penetrate the armour of the time.

Bull****.

Arrows from Welsh longbows were able to penetrate the heaviest armour of the time. Bolts from crossbows were iffy.

Agincourt wasn't a battle by itself, after all. The same tactic was used on at least 4 other occasions with similar results.