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Originally posted by GePap
SHOCKING! Great powers are supposed to bribe third world countries, NOT the other way around
Best post of this thread!
-Drachasor
"If there's a child on the south side of Chicago who can't read, that matters to me, even if it's not my child. If there's a senior citizen somewhere who can't pay for her prescription and has to choose between medicine and the rent, that makes my life poorer, even if it's not my grandmother. If there's an Arab American family being rounded up without benefit of an attorney or due process, that threatens my civil liberties. It's that fundamental belief -- I am my brother's keeper, I am my sister's keeper -- that makes this country work." - Barack Obama
And besides, as much as everyone likes to point fingers at Bush and the Republicans, there is no denying, just as the Duelfer report and the investigation that is ongoing now, that there was corruption in the UN government and other allied governments.
Edit: spelling
I don't doubt that there is some level of corruption within the United Nations.
A lot of Republicans are not racist, but a lot of racists are Republican.
More importantly, who cares? So Iraq was getting more money than they were supposed to get. What did they do with it? They certainly didn't buy WMDs.
Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...
So Iraq was getting more money than they were supposed to get. What did they do with it?
Bribed influential people in France, Russia and the UN to make sure that no action would be taken against Saddam's regime through the United Nations. Puts Bush's diplomatic failures in a different light, doesn't it?
KH FOR OWNER! ASHER FOR CEO!! GUYNEMER FOR OT MOD!!!
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
More importantly, who cares? So Iraq was getting more money than they were supposed to get. What did they do with it? They certainly didn't buy WMDs.
Billion dollar palace complexes.
Saddam didn't spend the money on his people because he knew that was excellent PR war against the US/UK while we were enforcing the no fly zone.
We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution. - Abraham Lincoln
Originally posted by Drachasor
Last I heard there was corruption with U.S. basec companies at least, and possibly the government as well.
And, quite frankly, there are always going to be people that can be bribed in any government. That's true of the U.N., France, Britain, Iraq, the U.S., and all others. There is no evidence any of the corruption influenced the governmental policies on Iraq. In fact, by all indications sanctions in Iraq were going to remain, and we all know that what Saddam was getting, wether the original estimate was accurate or this new was, is a paltry fraction of what lifted sanctions would have gotten him.
Quite frankly, the Oil for Food program problems were identified before we went into Iraq, and there was no real attempt to fix the problem. The loopholes could have been closed as part of our dealings with Iraq, and then Saddam's power based would eventually have been destroyed.
Of course, Bush 41 should have taken out the Republican Guard army when he had a chance, and we shouldn't have let the rebelling Iraqies (whom we encouraged to rebel) get slaughtered en masse. This is a far, far greater crime than any Oil for Food program problem.
No country is perfect. The best we can do is to work to fix problems that we see instead of constantly acting shocked and outraged when other countries have probilems whilst ignoring and denying our own faults.
-Drachasor
Well we're all part of the U.N., so why do you seem to have a problem with our holding the U.N. accountable?
He's got the Midas touch.
But he touched it too much!
Hey Goldmember, Hey Goldmember!
A billion here a billion there. Before you know it, it adds up to some real money.
"Just puttin on the foil" - Jeff Hanson
“In a democracy, I realize you don’t need to talk to the top leader to know how the country feels. When I go to a dictatorship, I only have to talk to one person and that’s the dictator, because he speaks for all the people.” - Jimmy Carter
Originally posted by Sikander
Well we're all part of the U.N., so why do you seem to have a problem with our holding the U.N. accountable?
I have no problem with it, but we also need to hold ourselves accountable too, and there is little evidence we are doing that. Instead we act like *all* of the problems are with other people and that Americans are perfect. This is a dangerous attitude for ourselves and for others.
-Drachasor
"If there's a child on the south side of Chicago who can't read, that matters to me, even if it's not my child. If there's a senior citizen somewhere who can't pay for her prescription and has to choose between medicine and the rent, that makes my life poorer, even if it's not my grandmother. If there's an Arab American family being rounded up without benefit of an attorney or due process, that threatens my civil liberties. It's that fundamental belief -- I am my brother's keeper, I am my sister's keeper -- that makes this country work." - Barack Obama
So Iraq was getting more money than they were supposed to get. What did they do with it?
Bribed influential people in France, Russia and the UN to make sure that no action would be taken against Saddam's regime through the United Nations. Puts Bush's diplomatic failures in a different light, doesn't it?
There's no evidence that this was going on, Drake. There is no evidence that Iraq was able to procure any political capital from these holes.
In case you didn't notice, France just really hates wars of all sorts. Russia wasn't that critical of U.S. policy overall, because it helped justify their own. As for Iraq, well, anyone that looks at the intelligence which says that Saddam was not an imminent threat nor was he a threat while the sanctions were in place, and then declares to the world that Saddam *is* an imminent threat whilst having no evidence is not going to get very far.
-Drachasor
"If there's a child on the south side of Chicago who can't read, that matters to me, even if it's not my child. If there's a senior citizen somewhere who can't pay for her prescription and has to choose between medicine and the rent, that makes my life poorer, even if it's not my grandmother. If there's an Arab American family being rounded up without benefit of an attorney or due process, that threatens my civil liberties. It's that fundamental belief -- I am my brother's keeper, I am my sister's keeper -- that makes this country work." - Barack Obama
In case you didn't notice, France just really hates wars of all sorts.
Actually, there I'm gonna call bull****. France does not hate all wars. France hates wars that are not in their interests. Which is fine, mind you, but they're no pacifists.
Originally posted by Arrian
Actually, there I'm gonna call bull****. France does not hate all wars. France hates wars that are not in their interests. Which is fine, mind you, but they're no pacifists.
Ehh, fair enough.
-Drachasor
"If there's a child on the south side of Chicago who can't read, that matters to me, even if it's not my child. If there's a senior citizen somewhere who can't pay for her prescription and has to choose between medicine and the rent, that makes my life poorer, even if it's not my grandmother. If there's an Arab American family being rounded up without benefit of an attorney or due process, that threatens my civil liberties. It's that fundamental belief -- I am my brother's keeper, I am my sister's keeper -- that makes this country work." - Barack Obama
I have no problem with it, but we also need to hold ourselves accountable too, and there is little evidence we are doing that. Instead we act like *all* of the problems are with other people and that Americans are perfect. This is a dangerous attitude for ourselves and for others.
-Drachasor
At least one U.S. company is under investigation by this committee. Our involvement in this matter is limited by the fact that Hussein didn't see much advantage in trying to bribe us to change our policy. What's interresting here is that there has been little to no activity on the part of the states who were much more involved in this activity and the U.N. to investigate. Which is exactly the behavior you are complaining about in the U.S., except it's happening elsewhere in this instance. As this thread is about shafting the people of Iraq in order to get rich for your own ends while shoring up a ruthless dictator why don't you save your blame Americanisms for one of the other dozen threads active today where they are more appropriate?
He's got the Midas touch.
But he touched it too much!
Hey Goldmember, Hey Goldmember!
Looking over the data, I can find no evidence of any France official being bribed. At best you can say Saddam offered them vouchers, but so far no evidence has been revealed of the France officials cashing them in. There is circumstancial evidence that a Russian official might have, but this isn't clear.
I would emhpasize yet again, that there is no evidence any of these countries had their foreign policy shifted at all by this.
-Drachasor
"If there's a child on the south side of Chicago who can't read, that matters to me, even if it's not my child. If there's a senior citizen somewhere who can't pay for her prescription and has to choose between medicine and the rent, that makes my life poorer, even if it's not my grandmother. If there's an Arab American family being rounded up without benefit of an attorney or due process, that threatens my civil liberties. It's that fundamental belief -- I am my brother's keeper, I am my sister's keeper -- that makes this country work." - Barack Obama
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