Man Commits Suicide Over Election.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Tingkai
It's a socratic question.

People who commit suicide typically have suffered from a mental illness which means they were incapable of thinking properly. So to call them selfish for dying is pretty much the same as saying someone who dies from a heart attack is selfish.

Given that one could argue that suicide is not a selfish act, does in no way, diminish the pain of those who were the person's family and friends.

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by MrFun
Given that one could argue that suicide is not a selfish act, does in no way, diminish the pain of those who were the person's family and friends.

I agree that death in any form causes pain and anger.

Suicides are particularly painful because people think "If only I had known...", I should have seen the signs..." And if you ever knew someone who committed suicide then you know the guilt.

But what Drachasor said is important. We need to educate each other to recognise the signs and to realise that help is available.

We need to change the way we think about suicides and to remember that if left untreated, mental illnesses can kill a person just like cancer and that people who are severely mentally ill cannot cure themself any more than a people can cure themself of cancer without medical help. And we need to remember that some suicides cannot be prevented, just as some cancers cannot be cured.

[Ted Striker]

Originally posted by Tuberski


So basically, even the medical professionals in your family missed the signs of your uncles illness?

By the same token of the way people have been saying how selfish it was of him to do it, I could also make the case that it was the guy's family and coworkers who were being selfish by not stepping in and helping him out. But why don't we blame them?

ANSWER: Our entire society is built on being punitive.

[Ted Striker]

Originally posted by Tuberski


Exactly my point, he didn't get away with it.

Yeah, and there are plenty of innocent people that die in car wrecks by drunk drivers. You did the same thing those people were, you just got lucky and didn't hurt anybody.

[Sikander]

Suicides are typically the result of two seperate pathologies. Identity problems (narcissism, borderline personalities, etc.) and mood disturbances (long term clinical depression, manic depression). The common thread in both is typically depression, which in the case of those with identity issues needn't be a long term or prevalent problem.

Typically people with identity problems who commit suicide tend to be younger (when identity is less concrete and people are much more prone to reckless action in general). Suicides who are afflicted with long term mood disturbances tend to be more spread out age wise. The sort of people Lefty is describing seem to be more from the identity crisis school. They often see suicide as a means to influence others (for vengeance, pity etc.) and aren't presently rational enough to see that they will actually cease to exist and thus never see any benefit to the act.

People with serious mood disturbances on the other hand typically do so to escape the torment of their disease. This again in most instances isn't completely rational, as most likely they would bounce back from the depths and feel good enough to value their lives once again if they hadn't killed themselves. But they get stuck in pattern where suicidal ideation is the only thing that brings them even temporary relief from their torment, and as even this effect begins to fail they move to action.

The key to this as an outsider wanting to do good is that suicidal people are very rarely rational. You can't exactly convince them not to kill themselves with logical arguments and expect that the issue is settled once and for all. The good thing about talking to them anyway is that you may well bring some temporary relief to their suffering by interrupting their internal dialogue, and in general showing them that they are not alone.

This is seemingly thankless work, but I know for a fact that it has saved lives on more than one occasion in my experience. So if one of your friends is down, pay them a visit and spend a little time with them. Slow down a bit (almost but not quite to their depressed speed) and just let things go from there. Listen to them if they want to talk, express your concerns and let them know that you are there for them. If you are still concerned about them contact their other friends and family and let them know about the situation. Use some judicious reasoning here, as some friends and particularly some family members might not be a good influence, and your friend may withdraw rather than deal with them.

All of this is complicated by some narcissist / dramatic types who may eat up this sort of attention and use you to the end of your energies. These people are a bane on mankind, and their appetites can be endless. With these sorts you'll have eventually draw the line. You'll want to do so by seeing what you are doing is actually feeding them and simply reducing the flow until they find that their energies can be better used elsewhere. You could of course simply tell them to get stuffed, but there is a chance that they will use that to trigger a vengeance suicide. It's better to simply bore them, drama is like oxygen to them.

[Ted Striker]

That's one of the best posts I've ever read.

Lots of wisdom in that.

[Tuberski]

Originally posted by Ted Striker


Yeah, and there are plenty of innocent people that die in car wrecks by drunk drivers. You did the same thing those people were, you just got lucky and didn't hurt anybody.

and you never have driven drunk, or sped or any other thing that causes death on the highway?

Now who's being judgmental.

ACK!

[Tuberski]

Originally posted by Ted Striker
That's one of the best posts I've ever read.

Lots of wisdom in that.

I agree 100%

ACK!

[The Mad Monk]

Indeed.

[Ted Striker]

Originally posted by Tuberski


and you never have driven drunk, or sped or any other thing that causes death on the highway?

Now who's being judgmental.

ACK!

Nope, never driven drunk. Speeding, sure.

But I'm not the one sitting in judgement of this man as being stupid. If only he had your grand wisdom, he would have been tough enough to save himself.

[The Mad Monk]

No, you're the one who attempted to make him into a martyr.

[Ted Striker]

And I'm sure that your purpose in starting the thread was 100% altruistic and had nothing to do with politics.

[Tuberski]

Originally posted by Ted Striker



Nope, never driven drunk. Speeding, sure.

But I'm not the one sitting in judgement of this man as being stupid. If only he had your grand wisdom, he would have been tough enough to save himself.

You only sit in judgment of drunk drivers, and people you don't have a clue about.

Maybe if the guy had "Hit It" he wouldn't have killed himself. He should have been more like you obviously.

ACK!

[The Mad Monk]

It had to do with people over-reacting, which you kindly demonstrated with the self-immolation photo, and continued to demonstate throughout this thread.

[The Mad Monk]

He was a poor, confused guy who made the worst possible choice, and you were doing your damnedest to turn him into some kind of hero for your holy war against Bush.