Asking all English Canadians

[Kuciwalker]

The whites in the South are not, AFAIK in favour of secession

A random unscientific sampling of bumper stickers disagrees with you

The blacks in the South were historically the victims of oppression

If the Anglos are forced to leave Canada too, especially if French becomes the official language, they'd be somewhat oppressed

[Fake Boris]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
If the Anglos are forced to leave Canada too, especially if French becomes the official language, they'd be somewhat oppressed

French is already the official language in Quebec.

[Kuciwalker]

Ah, well, see? They already are

(I thought English was also an official language?)

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
If the Anglos are forced to leave Canada too, especially if French becomes the official language, they'd be somewhat oppressed

The Anglos in Quebec are already the victims of certain forms of government sponsored discrimination.

a) This still doesn't begin to compare with what the blacks in the South endured

b) historically it's been the other way around

I don't agree with Oncle Boris' analysis of the will of a people being frustrated by a ruling minority. In fact, I think that this is patently false. However, your analogy is ridiculous.

The day they start enslaving the anglophones in Quebec I'll agree with you. Until then, stop being silly.

If you want to discuss Quebec politics you should at least understand the background

Plains of Abraham
Quebec Act
BNA act
Maurice Duplessis
Silent Revolution
Pierre Elliott Trudeau
René Levesque
October Crisis
1976
Bill 101, 22, 176 etc
1980
1982
1995

Until you're capable of explaining what each of these mean your analyses are just plain silly. It's like me talking to you about american politics without having read the Constitution or having heard of the Civil War.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
Ah, well, see? They already are

(I thought English was also an official language?)

Of Canada. Not of Quebec.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
The Anglos in Quebec are already the victims of certain forms of government sponsored discrimination.

a) This still doesn't begin to compare with what the blacks in the South endured

b) historically it's been the other way around

I don't agree with Oncle Boris' analysis of the will of a people being frustrated by a ruling minority. In fact, I think that this is patently false. However, your analogy is ridiculous.

I wasn't seriously insisting that there was major, institutionalized discrimination, but pointing out that the logic used was the same. It's those darn [insert minority here] holding us pure people back."

[KrazyHorse]

See what I mean?

That's bill 22

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
Of Canada. Not of Quebec.

Yes, but I thought (previously) that Quebec had dual official languages.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
The Anglos in Quebec are already the victims of certain forms of government sponsored discrimination.

a) This still doesn't begin to compare with what the blacks in the South endured

b) historically it's been the other way around

I don't agree with Oncle Boris' analysis of the will of a people being frustrated by a ruling minority. In fact, I think that this is patently false. However, your analogy is ridiculous.

I wasn't seriously insisting that there was major, institutionalized discrimination, but pointing out that the logic used was the same. It's those darn [insert minority here] holding us pure people back."

And if the minority has, until very recently, been in a position to politically oppress the majority then this argument becomes valid.

[KrazyHorse]

Bill 22

http://www2.marianopolis.edu/quebechistory/readings/langlaws.htm

[Fake Boris]

KH, I knew it was impossible to say what I said without being somehow misunderstood.

The sentence "French Canadians are being deprived independance because of the minorities" is true. In '95, the number of them who voted yes was more than 60%, and it still is at least 55%.

I'm not saying anything beyond that, and certainly not that immigrants and Anglos shouldn't have their say in a referendum.

[KrazyHorse]

In '95, the number of them who voted yes was more than 60%

Just under 60%

and it still is at least 55%

Not even close. Overall support for sovereignty is in the doldrums in the mid to high 30s and has been for more than 5 years.

This puts (if we assume that no non-francophones are sovereigntist) the francophone vote for sovereignty in the mid to high 40s

the 1995 referendum was as close to your description as its ever gotten. Since then the sovereigntists have lost ground. Good lucky to them when they try next time. They'll get slaughtered. Unlike 1995 the country isn' in the midst of a major depression, the national debt isn't out of control and we haven't just witnessed the failure of two rounds of constitutional talks.

Nobody cares any more.

[SpencerH]

Originally posted by Wezil


What you often see Spencer is what we call 'opting out' of federal programs. What this means is that when the federal government sends a new program down the pipe Quebec will take the cash allocated for the program in that province and administer the program itself w/o federal involvement. Their argument being the cash was theirs anyway (paid in taxes) and the feds should not dictate how it is spent.

While this sometimes results in a disconnect between a program offered in Quebec and the similar program elsewhere in the country, for the most part Canadians outside Quebec don't really care.

Oddly enough I have some sympathy for Quebec's insistance on running its own affairs. The historical record in this country is one of the federal government intruding all over provincial rights whenever it suits them. Sadly, the provinces frequently (almost always) step aside and let the feds assume the jurisdiction. Quebec in this respect has balls and usually says no. Just send the cheque.

Was this what you were referring to Spencer?

An interesting post since I havent lived in Canada for nearly 20 years (and so have lost touch) but it doesnt really get to what Oncle Boris was refering to. I take from your comments that the problem is one of the quebecois opinion that Quebec is a 'state' a la USA rather than a province. OB seemed to be suggesting something more cultural than governmental.

In any case, the questions posed by Kuciwalker kinda exemplify the problem; Canada has two official languages except in Quebec. Quebecois see this an extention of culture (and states rights) , the federal govt sees it as illegal but cant do anything about it, and the guy in Vancouver see's it as evidence that the francophones get special treatment.

[Fake Boris]

Originally posted by SpencerH


An interesting post since I havent lived in Canada for nearly 20 years (and so have lost touch) but it doesnt really get to what Oncle Boris was refering to. I take from your comments that the problem is one of the quebecois opinion that Quebec is a 'state' a la USA rather than a province. OB seemed to be suggesting something more cultural than governmental.

In any case, the questions posed by Kuciwalker kinda exemplify the problem; Canada has two official languages except in Quebec. Quebecois see this an extention of culture (and states rights) , the federal govt sees it as illegal but cant do anything about it, and the guy in Vancouver see's it as evidence that the francophones get special treatment.

No, you are misleaded. French and English are official languages at the federal level, while provinces are free to set their own. Quebec is officially French, New Brunswick is officially bilingual while all other provinces are officially English.

[Fake Boris]

KH, a poll conducted in January 2004, before "ze Scandal" shows support for independance at 47%, and 53% amongst francophones.

http://www.ledevoir.com/2004/01/23/45610.html