100,000 excess deaths reported in Iraq since the war started

[Evil Knevil]

[Bernard Lewis]
Arabs are notorious exaggerators
[/Bernard Lewis]

I find it hard to believe that the occupation has killed 100,000 Iraqis... At least not just through military action.

I would say that the collapse of the water systems, electric difficulties and disasterous healthcare killed more people than the war did.
Wether one can blame the Yankees, is a bit more difficult...

[Q Classic]

STFU STEFU! STOP HURTING THE MORAL MORALE OF OUR TROOPER TROOPS

[Harovan]

Thanks LOTM and Spiffor, but I put the word official in my question for a reason. In my opinion, anyone who criticizes numbers given by other sources, should at least release his own version.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Evil Knevil
[Bernard Lewis]
Arabs are notorious exaggerators
[/Bernard Lewis]

I dont think its a matter of culture, but of politics.

Sunni Arabs make up about 20% of the population. And probably the majority of them hate the coalition forces. If all or most of those who hate coalition forces are deliberately lying, that could easily generate highly unrealistic numbers.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Sir Ralph
Thanks LOTM and Spiffor, but I put the word official in my question for a reason. In my opinion, anyone who criticizes numbers given by other sources, should at least release his own version.

So if dont have, say, an estimate of the number of incidents of violence commited by Pakistanis in Britain, i cant criticize PA's numbers?

[Evil Knevil]

Originally posted by lord of the mark


I dont think its a matter of culture, but of politics.

Sunni Arabs make up about 20% of the population. And probably the majority of them hate the coalition forces. If all or most of those who hate coalition forces are deliberately lying, that could easily generate highly unrealistic numbers.

That was the first thought that came to mind. Even so, 100,000! The mind balks.

[BeBMan]

Of course there could be problems with those numbers. But isn't it much more important that the security situation in the country is really a mess, and that there seems to be no positive change ahead anytime soon?

[Gibsie]

[inane liberal comment about freedom]

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by BeBro
Of course there could be problems with those numbers. But isn't it much more important that the security situation in the country is really a mess, and that there seems to be no positive change ahead anytime soon?

Thread : Swift Boat Veterans Reveal Kerry lies
Poster A : john Kerry is a coward who lied about his service in Viet Nam
Poster B: Thats demonstrably not the case
Poster A: well isnt it more important to discuss the weaknesses displayed in his recent foreign policy statements?

Bebro, yes the situation in the country is more important, and is best discussed in a thread not titled with an apparently untrue claim.

[chequita guevara]

The researchers blamed air strikes for many of the deaths.

"What we have evidence of is the use of air power in populated urban areas and the bad consequences of it," Roberts said.

. . .

"We were not expecting the level of deaths from violence that we found in this study. . . .

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara

The researchers blamed air strikes for many of the deaths.

"What we have evidence of is the use of air power in populated urban areas and the bad consequences of it," Roberts said.

. . .

"We were not expecting the level of deaths from violence that we found in this study. . . .

"Tuesday, March 11, 2003

HEALTH AND HUMAN RIGHTS TEACH-IN: THE WAR IN IRAQ
See "More Information".
Tuesday, March 11, 2003
4:30 PM - 6:30 PM
East Baltimore
Building: 615 N. Wolfe St. - Bloomberg School of Public Health Room: East Wing Auditorium (Room W1214)
Cost: FREE
All students, faculty and staff are invited to a campus-wide teach-in regarding the potential health and human rights consequences of war in Iraq. The event will feature presentations from distinguished faculty and open discussion of issues raised. "Report from a fact-finding mission in Iraq: The vulnerability of life-saving public health and medical infrastructure" Michael VanRooyen, MD MPH: Associate Professor & Vice Chair, Department of Emergency Medicine Director, International Emergency Medicine Residency Program Co-Director, Center for International Emergency, Disaster and Refugee Studies (CIEDRS) "The management of complex humanitarian emergencies in the wake of armed conflict" Gilbert Burnham, MD PhD Associate Professor, Department of International Health Co-Director, Center for International Emergency, Disaster and Refugee Studies (CIEDRS) "Stress to environmental, water and sanitation systems during war" Les Roberts, PhD Associate Professor, Whiting School of Engineering Director of Health Policy, International Rescue Committee Robert Lawrence, MD (moderator) Edyth H. Schoenrich Professor of Preventive Medicine Associate Dean for Professional Practice and Programs The United States has spent many months planning for a concerted attack on Iraq, and in recent weeks, has revealed information about its massive military preparations. During this same period, there has been little public indication of plans and preparations to avoid civilian and "dual use" targets, minimize civilian casualties, or prepare for what may well be an enormous humanitarian crisis. Physicians for Human Rights (PHR) has concluded that preparing for such extraordinary use of military force to be deployed in a manner that will likely risk huge damage to infrastructure and civilian life, without due consideration for the consequences to the highly vulnerable population of Iraq, is intolerable. -PHR briefing paper, February 2003 "


Google is your friend.

[MrFun]

Re: 100,000 excess deaths reported in Iraq since the war started

Originally posted by Stefu

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=578&ncid=578&e=8&u=/nm/20041028/ts_nm/iraq_deaths_dc

Clearly Iraqis are better off now than under Saddam, aren't they?

So then, are you saying that the European casualties of World War II were not worth saving Europe from Nazi Germany?



The surviving Iraqis will be better off without Saddam's reign of terror -- once we find an effective political and military strategy to fight the current terrorism in Iraq.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Spiffor

"We don't do body counts"

Independent sources like http://www.iraqbodycount.org/ estimate it between 14,000 and 16,000

It should be noted that the above figure includes Iraqi victims of the insurgents, as well.


Oxblog

"Posted 2:33 AM by David Adesnik
FLOOD THE ZONE! FLOOD THE ZONE! Each day, the Washington Post performs an admirable service by updating the number of American soldiers killed and wounded in Iraq, while also providing the names of those fallen soldiers identified by the Pentagon.

This morning, however, the Washington Post committed a grave error by including estimates of Iraqi civlian casualties provided by iraqbodycount.net (IBC for short). The Post deceptively states that the figures are provided by Reuters and IBC. Yet Reuters itself states that the figures for civilian casualties come from IBC alone.

(NB: The Post provides the IBC figures on page A18 of Saturday morning's print edition. I have not been able to locate the figures online.)

In the past, OxBlog has demonstrated conclusively that IBC relies on fraudluent data and that its flagrant dishonesty reflects its lleft-wing extremist agenda.
Principal flaws of the IBC count include:

1) Counting the victims of suicide bombings as victims of American intervention.

2) Counting victims of common crime as victims of American intervention.

3) Claiming false knowledge of the names of such victims.
As my partner Josh Chafetz documented in the Weekly Standard in April 2003, IBC's has a long history of blatant deception. As both Josh and I have shown, mainstream publications have a disturbing habit of citing IBC as a reliable source."

[Fake Boris]

Re: Re: 100,000 excess deaths reported in Iraq since the war started

Originally posted by MrFun



So then, are you saying that the European casualties of World War II were not worth saving Europe from Nazi Germany?



The surviving Iraqis will be better off without Saddam's reign of terror -- once we find an effective political and military strategy to fight the current terrorism in Iraq.

I guess it depends. In the case of WW2, the effects of a German victory could easily have been predicted, while it seems the chaos ensuing from incompetency will cause an unpredictable number of casualties.

[Fake Boris]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
1) Counting the victims of suicide bombings as victims of American intervention.

2) Counting victims of common crime as victims of American intervention.

3) Claiming false knowledge of the names of such victims.
As my partner Josh Chafetz documented in the Weekly Standard in April 2003, IBC's has a long history of blatant deception. As both Josh and I have shown, mainstream publications have a disturbing habit of citing IBC as a reliable source."

What's wrong with 1) and 2)?

And 3) may be wrong, but it doesn't have any effect on the actual number of casualties.