Bestest Presidents

[Ned]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov


Ford? I mean, he was ineffectual, but a "bottom feeder?" If so, how can you rationalize not having Nixon on the list, since Ford's greatest crime was pardoning that evil sleazebag?

Ford's greatest crime was losing Vietnam. Ford's second greatest crime was blaming a recession on the American people.

[Ned]

Originally posted by David Floyd


The ends do not justify the means. He had no legal right to suspend habeas corpus, and no legal right to ignore a Supreme Court decision, even though he had the military force to do so. He was essentially a dictator. He waged a war of aggression against a nation that simply wanted independence - and yes, slavery was awful, but that's no excuse for a war. Lincoln and his allies in Congress started the first draft in US history, in order to supply cannon fodder for an increasingly unpopular war. On top of that, Lincoln meddled in the votes of various State Legislatures, in order to make sure the vote went his way.

The morality of slavery is irrelevant as to whether Lincoln acted in a Constitutional manner.

Lincoln did what was necessary to save the Union. This nation owes its honor and thanks to this man who was truly the second founder of United States.

[Ned]

Z, don't demonize Bush as a supply-sider. He is a Keynesian. He sought to lower taxes during a recession to kick-start the economy out of a severe recession. That is not "supply-side."

[Mr. Harley]

Ned - right policy, and when you look at most economists who are fairly neutral, WRONG taxcuts. Most Keynesians think the current taxcuts were in error, this is more the neocon policy of "starve the beast." Or, to put it more simply, it's a Neocon in Keynesian clothing.

David - reference the CSA/USA debate - I'm misquoting from memory but capturing the spirit of a statement attributed to Ben Franklin in the musical 1776. A revolution is only illegal in the third person, when it's YOUR revolution, it's always legal in the first person when it's MY revolution.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
As I understand it, that is to protect the states against insurrection, not the Federal government from seceding states.

An insurrection is an insurrection

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by David Floyd
No, because a simple vote isn't a rebellion.

Yes, but attempting to actually remove territory from the US is.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by shawnmmcc
David - reference the CSA/USA debate - I'm misquoting from memory but capturing the spirit of a statement attributed to Ben Franklin in the musical 1776. A revolution is only illegal in the third person, when it's YOUR revolution, it's always legal in the first person when it's MY revolution.

Yeah, that's basically it. We just finished watching that in history yesterday.

[Ned]

Originally posted by shawnmmcc
Ned - right policy, and when you look at most economists who are fairly neutral, WRONG taxcuts. Most Keynesians think the current taxcuts were in error, this is more the neocon policy of "starve the beast." Or, to put it more simply, it's a Neocon in Keynesian clothing.

Well, the current Nobel prize winner says the tax cuts were not large enough, not too much as argued by Kerry.

Also, the Bush tax cuts also sought to reverse so socialist-inspired policies, such as the estate tax, that have nothing to do with raising money, but are instead are nothing short of outrageous in the way they hurt families.

[SpencerH]

The bestest best prez: GW.

[Ned]

You know, Spence, if Kerry were running in 1864, he would have said that the Civil War was the "wrong war, at the wrong time and in the wrong place." He would have argued that "sanctions" would have reversed the South's decision to succeed, particularly in cooperation with our "European" allies.

[Kuciwalker]

No one caught my suggestion of Benjamin Franklin?

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by shawnmmcc
Most Keynesians think the current taxcuts were in error, this is more the neocon policy of "starve the beast." Or, to put it more simply, it's a Neocon in Keynesian clothing.

One of my economics professors called them bastard Keynesians. Ned is very confussed about the whole thing. He should really start looking into it more.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by David Floyd


My point was more along the lines of forcing a war on an unwilling populace is not a characteristic of a free government - which is my entire point about Lincoln.

Unwilling population??

The war effort in the Union was doing fine during the time before the draft was initiated. I cannot remember right now the high proportion of men who volunteered to fight to preserve the Union.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Ned
You know, Spence, if Kerry were running in 1864, he would have said that the Civil War was the "wrong war, at the wrong time and in the wrong place." He would have argued that "sanctions" would have reversed the South's decision to succeed, particularly in cooperation with our "European" allies.

This is the most retarded statement in the entire thread.

[Ned]

Originally posted by MrFun



This is the most retarded statement in the entire thread.

Nah! Closer to the truth than you would believe. The Democrat candidate in '64 did call for a cease fire and a negotiated settlement.