Your Reactions to the VP Debate

[Drachasor]

Originally posted by DanS
That's not so. Indeed, because of the security and the necessity of ensuring presidential succession, it's much less easy for Cheney and the President to move around.

If anything the manner of any movement difficulties they might have would allow them to be in the White House more. It would always be easy to move back there, even if going out might be hard (but it would probably just be more expensive and require a bit more forward planning, if anything).

As for the voting issue, it is quite possible that Kerry and Edwards knew their two votes wouldn't make any difference, and hence felt comfortable staying out. Besides, it is pretty clear they believe that there are much bigger things at stake than a few votes here and there (especially if it would changing the outcome of a Bill).

Anyhow, it is very, very common for Senators running for President to be out campaigning and have little time to be at Senate meetings. That's just how it is and has been. Kerry and Edwards have done nothing unsual. If such people stayed in the Senate all the time during while running then they'd never win. That's cold, hard reality. What you are saying is that they were neglecting their duties in the Senate, which is strictly speaking true. However, they were not neglecting their greater duty to America and Democracy, which is to give and inform voters of their choice come Election Day.

-Drachasor

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by Gibsie
Definitely. It's about as important as the pen-thing, as I said, in the "Who cares, let's move on to more important things that are actually relevent" sense.

You are speaking about American politics, you do realize?

[bipolarbear]

... you gotta remember that this election will not be decided by testosterone-driven hardasses. The winner of the election will be determined by waffling late-deciders who will very likely vote their emotions. Because Cheney comes across like an unrelenting a--hole, he drives away that kind of voter.

Edwards won the debate, no question.

In that sense, yes, sunshine Johnny did pwn Cheney in the debate. However in the whole who actually had a better argument and refuted hte most points, it goes to the ogre.

[Ramo]

According to Democracy Corps, Cheney won 40-37. However:

1. Among Independents, Edwards won 37-34
2. In battleground states, Edwards won 40-38
3. And most importantly, Edwards won 43-25 among undecideds. The only other poll among undecideds, CBS had Edwards winning with a comparable margin (12 points).

http://democracycorps.com/reports/analyses/VP_Debate_Release.pdf

[Ramo]

From factcheck.org (not .com ):

Cheney got our domain name wrong -- calling us "FactCheck.com" -- and wrongly implied that we had rebutted allegations Edwards was making about what Cheney had done as chief executive officer of Halliburton. In fact, we did post an article pointing out that Cheney hasn't profited personally while in office from Halliburton's Iraq contracts, as falsely implied by a Kerry TV ad. But Edwards was talking about Cheney's responsibility for earlier Halliburton troubles. And in fact, Edwards was mostly right.

PWNED!!!!

[Sprayber]

Originally posted by Drachasor


Yeah, but there is a very clear reason why they haven't been around. I believe they were busy with something important.

-Drachasor

Besides doing their job

[Sprayber]

Originally posted by Drachasor


If anything the manner of any movement difficulties they might have would allow them to be in the White House more. It would always be easy to move back there, even if going out might be hard (but it would probably just be more expensive and require a bit more forward planning, if anything).

As for the voting issue, it is quite possible that Kerry and Edwards knew their two votes wouldn't make any difference, and hence felt comfortable staying out. Besides, it is pretty clear they believe that there are much bigger things at stake than a few votes here and there (especially if it would changing the outcome of a Bill).

Anyhow, it is very, very common for Senators running for President to be out campaigning and have little time to be at Senate meetings. That's just how it is and has been. Kerry and Edwards have done nothing unsual. If such people stayed in the Senate all the time during while running then they'd never win. That's cold, hard reality. What you are saying is that they were neglecting their duties in the Senate, which is strictly speaking true. However, they were not neglecting their greater duty to America and Democracy, which is to give and inform voters of their choice come Election Day.

-Drachasor

If they cannot perform their duties while running for another office then they should resign that office. That goes for people in both parties. In fact, it should be made into law.

[Ramo]

That's nonsense. Senators should be forced to resign, and be replaced by unelected appointees of the Governor, because they can't be arsed to stay in Washington 24/7 to make futile votes against laws they can't stop while campaigning for the Presidency?

[Ramo]

Edwards' hometown newspaper:

http://www.newsobserver.com/politics/story/1705399p-7958298c.html

CHENEY: "Your hometown newspaper has taken to calling you Senator Gone." (An archive search finds no such reference in The News & Observer.)

[Ramo]

What Cheney said:

Now, in my capacity as vice president, I am the president of Senate, the presiding officer. I'm up in the Senate most Tuesdays when they're in session. The first time I ever met you was when you walked on the stage tonight.

Presidents of the Senate:

2001
January 30 - Enzi
February 6 - Chafee
February 13 - Chafee
February 27 - Allen
March 6 - Burns
March 13 - Reid
March 20 - DeWine
March 27 - Chafee
April 3 - Smith
April 24 - Chafee
May 1 - Chafee
May 8 - Chafee
May 15 - Frist
May 22 - Chafee
June 5 - Enzi
June 12 - Byrd
June 19 - Carper
June 26 - Bayh
July 10 - Nelson
July 17 - Clinton
July 24 - Byrd
July 31 - Stabenaw
September 25 - Wellstone
October 2 - Clinton
October 9 - Clinton
October 16 - Edwards
October 23- Byrd
October 30 - Bingaman
November 13 - Murray
November 27 - Jeffords
December 4 - Stabenaw
December 11 - Carnahan
December 18 - Nelson
2002
Tue 1/29 - Nelson
Tue 2/5 - Kohl
Tue 2/12 - Stabenow
Tue 2/26 - Landrieu
Tue 3/5 - Edwards
Tue 3/12 - Landrieu
Tue 3/19 - Miller
Tue 4/9 - Cleland
Tue 4/16 - Reed
Tue 4/23 - Wellstone
Tue 4/30 - Nelson
Tue 5/7 - Miller
Tue 5/14 - Cleland
Tue 5/21 - Nelson
Tue 6/4 - Durbin
Tue 6/11 - Corzine
Tue 6/18 - Dayton
Tue 6/25 - Landrieu
Tue 7/9 - Reed
Tue 7/16 - Corzine
Tue 7/23 - Reed
Tue 7/30 - Clinton
Tue 9/3 - Reed
Tue 9/10 - Corzine
Tue 9/17 - Reid
Tue 9/24 - Stabenow
Tue 10/1 - Miller
Tue 10/8 - Miller
Tue 10/15 - Reid
Tue 11/12 - Cheney
Tue 11/19 - Barkley (MN)

2003
Jan 7 Cheney
Jan 14 Stevens
Jan 22 Stevens
Jan 28 Stevens
Feb 4 Stevens
Feb 11 Stevens
Feb 25 Stevens
Mar 4 Stevens
Mar 11 Stevens
Mar 18 Stevens
Mar 25 Stevens
Apr 1 Stevens
Apr 8 Stevens
Apr 29 Stevens
May 6 Talent
May 13 Ensign
May 20 Alexander
June 3 Stevens
June 10 Stevens
June 18 Murkowski
June 24 Coleman
July 8 Stevens
July 15 Stevens
July 22 Chaffee
July 29 Stevens
Sept 2 Stevens
Sept 9 Stevens
Sept 16 Stevens
Sept 23 Stevens
Sept 30 Sununu
Oct 21 Stevens
Oct 28 Stevens
Nov 4 Stevens
Nov 11 Warner
Nov 18 Stevens
Dec 9 Stevens

2004
1/20 - Stevens
1/27 - Enzi
2/3 - Stevens
2/10 - Stevens
3/2 - Stevens
3/9 - Hagel
3/16 - Sununu
3/23 - Stevens
3/30 - Ensign
4/6 - Cornyn
4/20 - Stevens
4/27 - Chambliss
5/4 - Stevens
5/11 - Stevens
5/18 - Stevens
6/1 - Stevens
6/8 - Hutchinson
6/15 - Stevens
6/22 - Allard
7/6 - Burns
7/13 - Stevens
7/20 - Enzi
9/7 - Stevens
9/14 - Chafee
9/21 - Enzi
9/28 - Stevens
10/05 - Stevens

http://www.gpoaccess.gov/crecord/index.html

Only twice was Cheney able to fulfill his duties as President of the Senate. In fact, Edwards, supposedly ignoring his duties, had to serve as acting President of the Senate twice because Cheney was so often negligent of his own duties. Does that mean Cheney should resign his office, Sprayber?

[GePap]

Will you people please stop pointing out Cheney's bald faced lies and incorrect inuendo? Don't you know the man has a weak heart!?

[Drachasor]

Originally posted by GePap
Will you people please stop pointing out Cheney's bald faced lies and incorrect inuendo? Don't you know the man has a weak heart!?

So, we just shouldn't talk about him then?

I thought any press was good press? : )

-Drachasor

[GePap]

well, its interesting how for the most part everyone saw the first debate as a clear Kerry victory except that douche Novak and the liars at FoxNews, while opinions on this debate differ more significantly.

[Flubber]

Originally posted by GePap
well, its interesting how for the most part everyone saw the first debate as a clear Kerry victory except that douche Novak and the liars at FoxNews, while opinions on this debate differ more significantly.

probably because Kerry clearly outperformed Bush while the Cheney-Edwards tussle was much closer-- Cheney did have an air of quiet competence at times but his factual errors detracted from his performance

[Drachasor]

Originally posted by GePap
well, its interesting how for the most part everyone saw the first debate as a clear Kerry victory except that douche Novak and the liars at FoxNews, while opinions on this debate differ more significantly.

That is interesting true, but not terribly surprising.

People that want a candidate to win tend to have blinders on during the debates. (Not always, just a tendency).

Also, people who are really concerned about Iraq and foreign relations tend to give little thought to domestic issues.

These things and similar influences can cause dramatic differences who you think won. Since the first debate was wholly on foreign policy in general, and Iraq in particular, these types of mind-sets played less of a role. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a similar situation Friday, though it is quite possible that Kerry will simply look better than Bush on basically all fronts.

Edwards easily won on looking concerned about everyday Americans and knowing there are problems with the new jobs out there and how families are doing. These sorts of things are of primary importance to the average undecided. That's why, for purposes of the election, Edwards had a practical victory.

-Drachasor