Humanity's Common Ancestor Only ~3500 Years Old

[Al B. Sure!]

the bering land bridge submerged between 40K and 10K years ago... though there is speculation it was still up after this, that has remained speculation...

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Ramo

I think it's bunk.

There are groups of people who have only married among themselves for the last 3500 years, surely.

I think it's a model of how things could work, not how they did work.

Why do you say that?

Because I am positive that there are several populations who have been extremely isolated until very recently.

[notyoueither]

Of course, soon enough it will be true. Maybe another couple hundred years to allow for genetic exchange in those until recently isolated populations.

[Ramo]

Got spare money?

the bering land bridge submerged between 40K and 10K years ago... though there is speculation it was still up after this, that has remained speculation...

Which has absolutely nothing to do with the question I asked. I guess I win the bet, how much money do you want to give me?

Because I am positive that there are several populations who have been extremely isolated until very recently.

On NPR, I think they were saying that Tasmanians may have been an exception, but the point is that the vast, vast, vast majority of humanity is pretty closely connected.

[Al B. Sure!]

the pygmies... the bushmen... the aboriginies... a slew of amazonian tribes...

oh and ramo... my bad. the eskimos did cross from asia to america just before 1000 or so... but that's fairly recent and i doubt the eskimo ancestors were getting around much before then nor were their descendents getting far south in the americas.

[Al B. Sure!]

Ramo:

what are you saying? that the phoenicians built a temple to Istar in new carthage on the coast of guatemala and went on to rape every woman they encountered in a 1000 mile area?

[Ramo]

I'm saying that there was probably a significant number of immigrants to America that crossed the Berring Straits without the assistance of a land bridge. Again, if Charlemagne can be the father of the Western world, that clearly isn't warranted.

[Al B. Sure!]

but historical data thus far concludes that no significant number of immigrants crossed from the old world to the new in ancient times... theories about phoenicians and polynesians are speculative...

and anyone saw that thing where both Bush and Kerry share a common ancestor in the 17th century?

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Ramo

Because I am positive that there are several populations who have been extremely isolated until very recently.

On NPR, I think they were saying that Tasmanians may have been an exception, but the point is that the vast, vast, vast majority of humanity is pretty closely connected.

I think they are being overly optimistic even with populations that were all linked by land. Many societies in Africa-Eurasia are very... discriminating. Think India and caste, let alone people of different colours from far off places. Customs of not breeding out of class and or culture is a serious obstacle for a theory like this to overcome.

Also, 3500 years is not very many generations when you think about it. Even at average breeding at 15 years it is about 230 generations. Too few to link everyone even in Africa-Eurasia, given history IMO.

Of course now it will happen fairly rapidly with class and cultural barriers being torn down.

[Al B. Sure!]

yeah... their whole assumption was that no population remained isolated for any lengthy time period, an assumption which historical research thus far proves false.

[Ramo]

The researchers are saying that the models take into account class, cultural barriers, etc.

but historical data thus far concludes that no significant number of immigrants crossed from the old world to the new in ancient times...

Proof? I don't see how historical data would contradict that Siberian immigrants (mind you, not huge numbers and not all the time) crossed over every once in a while. It seems like a reasonable supposition to me.

theories about phoenicians and polynesians are speculative...

Neither Phoenicians nor Polynesians crossed over the Berring Straits.

[Al B. Sure!]

Proof? I don't see how historical data would contradict that Siberian immigrants (mind you, not huge numbers and not all the time) crossed over every once in a while. It seems like a reasonable supposition to me.

and these siberian immigrants were cousins to zulus and went from alaska and breed their way down both continents? did ancient siberians before the ekimos even possess vassels capable of this?

[Ramo]

Again, you still don't understand what this study is saying. Some guy or gal in Burma 3500 years ago had descendents who crossed the Berring Straits and some descendents who made it into South Africa.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Ramo
Proof? I don't see how historical data would contradict that Siberian immigrants (mind you, not huge numbers and not all the time) crossed over every once in a while. It seems like a reasonable supposition to me.

What's unreasonable is that some few... 'boat people' would have interbred their way down the Americas.

There would indeed have been contact between bands of Innu and other residents of Northern climes. The problem would have been in them spreading from there. The Cree, those who lived just South of the Innu had a: little contact with the Innu and b: a virulent hatred for each other (at least at the time of Europeans being around to record such things). All in all it does not point to an easy barrier for recent migrants from Asia to reach the mountains of Colorado, let alone the Andes.

[Ramo]

Also, 3500 years is not very many generations when you think about it. Even at average breeding at 15 years it is about 230 generations. Too few to link everyone even in Africa-Eurasia, given history IMO.

Too few based on what reason? Did you attempt to model this as well?

I think criticizing the study as bunk is pretty silly without actually seeing the data. If the study's sound enough to get published in Nature, I don't see how I can automatically object to this when I have absolutely no experience in modeling this sort of thing.