This is truly sickening

[Ned]

Whaleboy, you could never train a dog if you believe his natural behavior must be respected and understood.

[Q Classic]

Puppies are stupid, throw rocks at them.

[Ned]

Whaleboy, if you deem the youths morality respecting the dog to be invalid, you are making unacceptable moral judgments based SOLELY on your belief that your values are superior to their values. Such arrogance can only lead to war and violence as you impose your sense of right and wrong on those who disagree with you.

[Az]

This line of reasoning is correct and only correct if there is an ideal that we can compare to, to determine what is a flaw and what isn't.

I contend there is no such system for humans, and as such it is not appropriate terminology to use the term "flaw". There is no ideal, there is no perfect, and ergo, there is no flaw...

filosofy...

In that case, you shouldn't have accepted the term "flaw" in the first place....

Try me.

No, you try me. That's the whole point: If you think that utilitarianism is against "common sense" or can be used to justified eating babies on a daily basis, then by all means, do so.

[Thorn]

What's wrong with eating babies.... tasty flesh for my tummy?

[Az]

Originally posted by Q Cubed

Puppies are stupid, throw rocks at them.

....

[Asher]

Originally posted by Azazel
In that case, you shouldn't have accepted the term "flaw" in the first place....

How do you figure saying "it is not a flaw" is accepting the term "flaw"?

[Whaleboy]

Whaleboy, you could never train a dog if you believe his natural behavior must be respected and understood.

Of course a dog can be trained, but you cannot make a dog heed to society as humans do.

Whaleboy, if you deem the youths morality respecting the dog to be invalid, you are making unacceptable moral judgments based SOLELY on your belief that your values are superior to their values. Such arrogance can only lead to war and violence as you impose your sense of right and wrong on those who disagree with you.

That's the point... I don't deem their morality invalid, and my values don't come into it. If they did, like I said they'd suffer. However, in a society a calculus applies of what is acceptable of nor (variant on society of course ) whereby their actions are unacceptable.

In that case, you shouldn't have accepted the term "flaw" in the first place....

wtf?

No, you try me. That's the whole point: If you think that utilitarianism is against "common sense" or can be used to justified eating babies on a daily basis, then by all means, do so.

Burden of proof is upon you. I have numerous arguments against utilitarianism, you claimed to have a refutation of anti-utilitarian arguments, or an (essentially) irrefutable position that I was asking for. If you are unable to provide me with such an argument upon this or the previous request, I suggest you retract your original suggestion.

[Az]

You're accepting it's relevance to the disscussion, since you said that

"It's only a flaw if you expect humans to be completely rational."

That means that in your opinion humans can be flawed. You never implied that "flaw" is something that can't have...

In any case, I am fully ready to debate you whether human being can have "flaws"....

[Whaleboy]

Then I await the outline of your argument

[Az]

wtf?

An evil series of x-posts. This was directed at asher.

Burden of proof is upon you. I have numerous arguments against utilitarianism, you claimed to have a refutation of anti-utilitarian arguments, or an (essentially) irrefutable position that I was asking for. If you are unable to provide me with such an argument upon this or the previous request, I suggest you retract your original suggestion.

You claimed that you can justify eugenics, mass murder, or whatever, using utilitarianism. The burden of proof is on you....

[Xuenay]

I suggest people give a nice, rough group of giants a call and ask them to use those youth as footballs.

[Az]

revenge is sweet, but rots your soul like candy rots your teeth.


I can't believe I just typed that...

[Q Classic]

quote:
Originally posted by Azazel

quote:
Originally posted by Q Cubed

quote:
Originally posted by Thorn
Puppies are stupid, throw rocks at them.

....

[Asher]

Originally posted by Azazel
You're accepting it's relevance to the disscussion, since you said that

"It's only a flaw if you expect humans to be completely rational."

That means that in your opinion humans can be flawed. You never implied that "flaw" is something that can't have...

It means no such thing. I said "it is now a flaw" earlier, as well. And notice the "if" in there -- I don't think human beings can be flawed, since there is no standard to compare against. I also never implied that they can be flawed...I've said point blank, that they can't.

In any case, I am fully ready to debate you whether human being can have "flaws"....

For a human being to have flaws, it must be compared to a perfect human being in order to classify such as flaws.

Do you really want to argue that there is a perfect human being (other than myself, obviously )?