Terrifying

[Geronimo]

Originally posted by problem_child

You seem to still be operating under the dillusion that DU dust keeps itself nicely tucked away on burned out tanks and such and doesn't wonder off in the breeze or anything at all. How descent and good of the DU to behave like that in your world. How civilised of it, how sporting.

I suppose he imagines it will behave quite like the lead which was used in earlier wars behaved. DU is a solid not a gas. It won't diffuse through the environment any faster than lead used to.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by problem_child
I've seen those images before, they are documents of malformed still-births in the nations in question relating to reports of the effects of DU.

1) The images aren't documents. I hope you meant you saw the images in documented reports.

2) what reports? Moreover, the site doesn't show them - all it shows are images that for all I can tell could've come from a perfectly normal hospital ward anywhere in the world.

[Q Classic]

You seem to still be operating under the dillusion that DU dust keeps itself nicely tucked away on burned out tanks and such and doesn't wonder off in the breeze or anything at all. How descent and good of the DU to behave like that in your world. How civilised of it, how sporting.

1. it's delusion.
2. no, i don't operate under that delusion. since you have trouble comprehending what i wrote, let me break it up for you this way even further: DU is bad. i feel bad for all those who end up sucking the big one because of its use. however, there are plenty of cases where exposure has occured because of the idiocy of the person in question. i do not see why i need to feel bad for them.

Comment about the lower income folks was in the spirit of irony, I put it to you that that is in fact your attitude, or at least the position that you are representing with the statement I responded to. That anybody dumb enough to be present in a DU filled battlefield is just plain stupid. Grunts of any nation are rarely held as a priority outside of the politics games that elites play. Fact is most US soldiers are from poorer backgrounds looking to train/educate/opportunize themselves.

if you actually read the full statement, you will see that i would like to see the government taken to task over the matter.

Just like DU shells actually, after the flash, the issue is forgotten, even though the damage rumbles on. For vets and DU dust alike.

actually, it's my understanding that there's no flash on a DU shell's impact.

a more apt comparison would be:

"Just like DDT contamination actually, after the event, the issue is forgotten, even though the damage rumbles on. For vets and birds alike."

problem_child, get rid of the sticks up your ass. i'm not the one you should be convincing DU is bad, since i'm well aware of its implications, its uses, its few pros, and its many cons.

i don't see why you're attacking me and ASSuming that i have these views when i don't.

[The Mad Monk]

Originally posted by Sava
WHy don't you strap some of those rounds next to your nutsack for a while and tell me what you think then.

Fine -- I'll do that, and you tie some white phosphous to yours.

[problem_child]

Originally posted by Q Cubed

You seem to still be operating under the dillusion that DU dust keeps itself nicely tucked away on burned out tanks and such and doesn't wonder off in the breeze or anything at all. How descent and good of the DU to behave like that in your world. How civilised of it, how sporting.

1. it's delusion.
2. no, i don't operate under that delusion. since you have trouble comprehending what i wrote, let me break it up for you this way even further: DU is bad. i feel bad for all those who end up sucking the big one because of its use. however, there are plenty of cases where exposure has occured because of the idiocy of the person in question. i do not see why i need to feel bad for them.

Comment about the lower income folks was in the spirit of irony, I put it to you that that is in fact your attitude, or at least the position that you are representing with the statement I responded to. That anybody dumb enough to be present in a DU filled battlefield is just plain stupid. Grunts of any nation are rarely held as a priority outside of the politics games that elites play. Fact is most US soldiers are from poorer backgrounds looking to train/educate/opportunize themselves.

if you actually read the full statement, you will see that i would like to see the government taken to task over the matter.

Just like DU shells actually, after the flash, the issue is forgotten, even though the damage rumbles on. For vets and DU dust alike.

actually, it's my understanding that there's no flash on a DU shell's impact.

a more apt comparison would be:

"Just like DDT contamination actually, after the event, the issue is forgotten, even though the damage rumbles on. For vets and birds alike."

problem_child, get rid of the sticks up your ass. i'm not the one you should be convincing DU is bad, since i'm well aware of its implications, its uses, its few pros, and its many cons.

i don't see why you're attacking me and ASSuming that i have these views when i don't.

Aw, you got me with a spelling mistake, your argument is immense in its power and logic.

DU shells don't flash, that pedantic point adds even more to the weight of your position as opposed to my own.

This ASSuming thing of yours is the final nail in the coffin of everything I have said, it just put me down so thuroughly I really don't think I have the inclination to respond anymore. I am totally demoralised, both shocked- and awed.

[Lonestar]

Originally posted by Sava
but DU is like pollution... it doesn't just affect you during the attack or whatever... it has long term effects that are worse than chemical weapons. I understand why the UN considers it a WMD.

All weapons are like pollution, especially if duds.

I wonder what al-jeezera thinks of Willy Pete?

[Q Classic]

This ASSuming thing of yours is the final nail in the coffin of everything I have said, it just put me down so thuroughly I really don't think I have the inclination to respond anymore. I am totally demoralised, both shocked- and awed.

it's quite true, you know. for some reason you think i'm in on the side of people who actually want to use this stuff, when anybody with half a brain and who'd read my posts would clearly see that i'm not...

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Oerdin
It's called depleted because there is almost no radioactivity left in it.

It's almost no when compared to a metal that when processed can burn you. It's still more radioactive than normal background radiation.

[chequita guevara]

The military actally has a weapon that is almost as effective as DU without being either toxic or radioactive. IIRC (and I make no guarantees that I am), it is made from tungsten.

DU weapons are not fired at people. That would be a waste of ammo. They are weapons to be used against armor, maybe buildings. When it hits a hard target, it burns so hot that it goes right through armor. As it burns it vaporizes, and the dust is scattered all over the place. It is the dust that is primarily the problem.

Lead is toxic, but it isn't fired at high enough velocities to burn and vaporize. That doesn't mean that lare concentrations of spent bullts don't cause problems. There's a gun club on Lake Michigan in Chicago that has had to switch from using lead projectiles because so much lead is no concentrated on the lake bed nearby that it's leaching into the environment.

As for birth defects, in order to prove a linkage to DU (and given its toxicity, I would be inclined to believe there's a link), detractors need to show there's a higher incindence of birth defects in areas subjected to DU bombardment.

[Q Classic]

The military actally has a weapon that is almost as effective as DU without being either toxic or radioactive. IIRC (and I make no guarantees that I am), it is made from tungsten.

this is true, but the problem is price.

as for the rest of the post, it's clearly done by someone who has done research, understands the issues, and isn't all overwrought over a few propaganda pieces.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
The military actally has a weapon that is almost as effective as DU without being either toxic or radioactive. IIRC (and I make no guarantees that I am), it is made from tungsten.

And way more expensive.

[MikeH]

How do you avoid a war zone when the war zone is the streets of the city you live on?

[the_ceebs]

where DU shells are used, it's a war zone. you ought to know not to be around for the initial contamination. for the residual contamination, IT'S IN A GODDAMN WARZONE. you should have enough sense to avoid it

At the moment, much of Iraq appears to be a war zone, Is it O.K. if the population stays at your house till it all blows over?

[Mr. Harley]

DU has minimal radiation, living at high altitude probably would give you a higher level of exposure. However, DU is a heavy metal, and heavy metal dust (especially the fine crap from condensed vapor) is typically very nasty (and yes, a filter mask would help ALOT). Lead is actually mild as heavy metals go, and most creatures have no metabolic mechanism to eliminate from the body (no evolutionary pressure to do so). They get in, screw up certain metabolic pathways, and then they don't go away. Chegitz analysis on proof of birth defects is right on the money, but I would not be surprised if DP cause them. However, Oerdin's analysis is also correct versus dying now from the sniper in the building versus later from being treated for Gulf War syndrome. The silliest thing is that this time the US has used very little DP, the first Gulf War is where it saw heavy use. Silly article, stupid argument - the US military did some analysis and determined the worst danger was inside killed Iraqi vehicles (first Gulf War), so the Darwin issue now comes up. Stay out of wrecked military vehicles. Duh.

[Q Classic]

At the moment, much of Iraq appears to be a war zone, Is it O.K. if the population stays at your house till it all blows over?

DU shells, as far as i understand it, are not being used willy-nilly in iraq in urban areas. therefore, DU contamination in urban areas should be less than that of the outlying, rural areas.

Silly article, stupid argument - the US military did some analysis and determined the worst danger was inside killed Iraqi vehicles (first Gulf War), so the Darwin issue now comes up. Stay out of wrecked military vehicles. Duh.

thank you.

of course, when i say it, people think i'm all for using more DU, and that i hate non-white americans...