I'm thinking about voting for Bush- talk me out of it

[Ned]

His running mate is a cute looking demagogue who lays out a message of hate in a very nice sounding package.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Ned
Spiffor, he spouts the usual class warfare crap that most Democrats spout.

From JohnKerry.com

(I chose the topic that is most prone to "spouting the usual class warfare crap", i.e the ads about decreasing incomes, broadcasted on labor day)

Nearly 1.4 million more people are working part time under Bush because they cannot find full-time jobs – the largest increase of any president on record -- and the number of people that have given up even looking for work is at an all-time high.

Unfortunately, job quality in today’s economy is just more evidence of America moving in the wrong direction under George Bush as the result of him making the wrong choices for America, like tax breaks for companies that ship jobs overseas.
[...]
Kerry and Edwards will make America more competitive. They will cut health care costs for America’s families and employers, especially small businesses
[...]
They will help prepare American workers for the high-paying jobs of the future by expanding access to higher education and fight for overtime pay for America’s workers.
[...]
“We know that the American economy won’t work until we put the American people back to work – and not just in any jobs, but in good jobs that let you pay your bills and build your dreams,”
[...]
we’re going to set America in a new direction with a plan to create jobs and strengthen and expand the middle class.”

Well, their economic policies seems to aim at increasing the opportunities of high-quality jobs for the middle class, and restricting the outflow of said jobs toward foreign countries. I guess that's what passes for "class warfare" in the Land of the Free

But I forgot the snippet that is the most damning for Commie Kerry:

They will end tax breaks for companies that shift jobs overseas and instead give tax breaks to companies that create jobs here in America.

OMG! They'll give their tax cuts SELECTIVELY! Sure they'll hand out corporate welfare in the form of tax cuts, and sure the capitalists will make out like bandits out of it, but only the ones that don't outsource!

Quickly, you must prevent this new Lenin from victory!

[MikeH]

@Spiffor

[Ned]

Spiffor, you really know what I am talking about -- raising taxes dramatically on ONLY those making +200k, restoring the estate tax, restoring the marriage penalty. There is not a speech he makes where he does not dip into the class warfare socialist party line.

As to this "jobs" deal, what Kerry wants to do is impose tarriffs and non tarriff barriers to free trade -- i.e., he is a big time protectionist, a crime of which you and other Europeans have often criticized Bush. As we know from economics 101, free trade is critical to economic growth. Protectionism helps the few at the expense of the many.

Kerry will harm America and the world if he is let loose on the world economy.

[Imran Siddiqui]

he is a big time protectionist

Like Bush isn't? Or did you forget those huge steel tariffs of his?

[DinoDoc]

he is a big time protectionist

He only voted against NAFTA before voting for it.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Ned
As to this "jobs" deal, what Kerry wants to do is impose tarriffs and non tarriff barriers to free trade -- i.e., he is a big time protectionist, a crime of which you and other Europeans have often criticized Bush. As we know from economics 101, free trade is critical to economic growth. Protectionism helps the few at the expense of the many.

What I can derive from this platform (remember that I'm not a Kerry fan, and I oppose him from the left), Kerry wants to put barriers to free investment, not trade. I have no idea whether the US will succeed at fighting outsourcing where Europe (France and Germany in particular) failed, but this doesn't look like barriers on trade, but on investment. Big difference, as it affects the international economy in an entirely different way.

Besides, I personally never criticized Bush for his protectionist positions. To me, protectionism is an economic tool that must be manipulated with pragmaticism. I actually think Kerry will prove more favourable to free-trade than Bush, which is one of the reasons I oppose him. Let's just say I criticize Kerry for pretty much the same reasons Imran supports him

[PLATO]

Once again, I must point out that Kerry talks a good line, but does not put forth ANY specific proposals on issues. Bush has proposed specific programs to deal with specific issues. Big Difference. It is one thing to have a plan and have that plan disagreed with...it is quite another to critisize without offering alternatives.

[OzzyKP]

Originally posted by Ned
Dis, I hope you vote for Bush because it is the right thing to do. Bush will keep us safe. I don't have to elaborate here. But I am particularly enthusiatic about his domestic agenda. He is planning fundamental reform on everything, from health, to social security, to taxes. He will give Americans ownership of their health insurance, their retirement plan and will make taxes simpler, perhaps even eliminating income taxes entirely. You think America is a good place to live now, it will be much better if Bush is re-elected.

Oh Bush is so full of crap. That's the same stuff he said when he was campaigning in 2000. If you want to really know what a President will do, look at his record. Bush championed the greatest EXPANSION of medicare in a generation. Bush pushed through the biggest federal expenditure on education in decades. Bush imposed steel tariffs. What did he do with social security? Nothing. Did he reform medicare/medicaid? No, he just spent a lot more money on it.

Bush says one thing to sucker in fools like you, and then he does the opposite. If you want high spending, big government, less civil liberties, pre-emptive war and huge deficits, by all means vote for Bush. But don't believe for a second he is actually going to cut spending.

Heck, Bush spent more than Clinton did. Clinton is actually the first President in decades to leave office with a smaller government than he had coming in. With a Republican led congress, I don't think Kerry will have as much spending as Bush will.

[Dis]

Originally posted by Spiffor

What in his platform, or in his behaviour, makes him look like a "left-wing nutjob"?


What exactly do you fear could happen?

I'm genuinely interested. From my perspective, Kerry is a nice little capitalist, corporate lapdog, that won't change much to the US, except maybe some more emphasis on education.
I haven't seen anything "left-wing nutjob"-ish wrt welfare, corporate governance, or social topics like gay marriage.

Now, I suppose I don't follow the US campaign as closely as you do, and maybe you have seen something in his platform that actually looks like what a "left-wing nutjob" would do. Please give me the info

he's proposed some outrageous gasoline tax hikes

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Dissident
he's proposed some outrageous gasoline tax hikes

Wow! That's pretty ballsy coming from someone like him. I have to say my esteem of the guy just climbed a bit.

[Ned]

Originally posted by Spiffor

What I can derive from this platform (remember that I'm not a Kerry fan, and I oppose him from the left), Kerry wants to put barriers to free investment, not trade. I have no idea whether the US will succeed at fighting outsourcing where Europe (France and Germany in particular) failed, but this doesn't look like barriers on trade, but on investment. Big difference, as it affects the international economy in an entirely different way.

Besides, I personally never criticized Bush for his protectionist positions. To me, protectionism is an economic tool that must be manipulated with pragmaticism. I actually think Kerry will prove more favourable to free-trade than Bush, which is one of the reasons I oppose him. Let's just say I criticize Kerry for pretty much the same reasons Imran supports him

What is the difference between buying a widget from abroad from another and making it yourself abroad and importing it? Nothing, but who pays the workers and owns the plants.

Cutting down on US foreign investment while doing nothing about trade only harms American companies flexibility in the best way to conduct their business. They will still get that foreign widget, just not from workers they hire and supervise.

If Kerry really wants to prop up American jobs, he has to raise tarriffs or non tarriff trade barriers big time.

[Agathon]

he's proposed some outrageous gasoline tax hikes

Um... maybe that might cut down on pollution and stimulate the production of more fuel efficient cars, which would mean that you wouldn't have to launch more oil wars.

But that makes too much sense...

[Ned]

Originally posted by PLATO
Once again, I must point out that Kerry talks a good line, but does not put forth ANY specific proposals on issues. Bush has proposed specific programs to deal with specific issues. Big Difference. It is one thing to have a plan and have that plan disagreed with...it is quite another to critisize without offering alternatives.

Right on!

This is the basis of virtually all Democrat criticism of Bush. They have no real alternative plan. Just statements that we can do better or that we can make the deaf hear, the lame walk and the dead rise again, all, though, without specifics on just how they would do these things.

[Ned]

Clinton was a good president in many ways, Ozzy. I have never said anything different.

I just didn't like his lying.