left, right?

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Whaleboy
No. Socially left or right is a misnomer,

No it isn't.

[muxec]

Economically: centrist to right
Politically: right
Attitude to religin cenrist to right


Attitude to our parlament: all of them are ****

[Provost Harrison]

Clinging onto the far end of left with my fingernails

[Whaleboy]

it's not that simple. Historically, left denotes a more progressive outlook on things, be it economically or socially.

Because the libertarian issues were situationally linked toward to leftist economic policy. Now that is no longer the case, if you will, another dimension has been created. For example, a Stalinist would be very left wing economically, but very totalitarian, which some might consider right wing.

Bull****

Care to explain?

The poll is not about what people are, but about what people think they are

Hardly, for comparison, peoples views are relative to the other, but since we aren't talking about economics, we must include social issues, hence left, right + liberal or totalitarian. Someone could claim to be a centrist or a liberal but in fact, has faschist elements.

Of course it's easier to abandon this whole discussion and say that someone isn't an "ist" or an "ism" but has instead views that are reflective of oneself, in the artistic sense. That won't make the utilitarians very happy though .

No it isn't.

Yes it is. Fiscal policy is left or right. Its silly to say that liberty is on the left and totalitarianism is on the right, when they aren't necessarily related to economics. You can have libertarian communism ("proper" anarchism), and libertarian capitalism (right-wing liberals). Totalitarian communism bears most resemblance to Stalinism.

You could independentally call them left or right but that'll just cause confusion.

The best example of what I'm saying is the thing on politicalcompass.org.

[Az]

Care to explain?

No, not really.

Seriously, most people don't think in terms of 'liberty vs. totality'. They think about different aspects of life, and have different opinions in them.

[Whaleboy]

Which is what I said above... you can't categorise it in two dimensions, let alone one of left and right.

Doing it two-dimensionally is better for finding out where people are relative to others, obviously the more dimensions you include the better (i can think of about four or five off the top of my head), but everyone has different priorities, so if you wanted to create a true picture, you'd have to relate it to the individual... hence "conceptual" art.

[Whaleboy]

And why in the name of sweet merciful lucipher did you change your sig?

[Gangerolf]

I think I'm evolving into a social democrat.

[Kidlicious]

Left is good. Right is evil. So even though some people say that you can have a totalitarian left. It's not really true. Totalitarian is right more than that libertarian silliness.

[Az]

Which is what I said above... you can't categorise it in two dimensions, let alone one of left and right

Insead you placed a single one "liberty vs. totality" or whatever.

[Whaleboy]

Sure you can have a totalitarian left. Everyone works for the state, no private enterprise, no private property, and socially, no free speech, no freedom of association, everyone is reduced to a cog in a machine. There is a tenuous link between fiscal and social policy, and that link makes leftist economic policy marginally more compatible with totalitarianism than capitalism. I say it is a tenuous link because fiscal policy cannot on its own impede much upon freedom of expression and association, except via taxation.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Whaleboy
Sure you can have a totalitarian left. Everyone works for the state, no private enterprise, no private property, and socially, no free speech, no freedom of association, everyone is reduced to a cog in a machine. There is a tenuous link between fiscal and social policy, and that link makes leftist economic policy marginally more compatible with totalitarianism than capitalism. I say it is a tenuous link because fiscal policy cannot on its own impede much upon freedom of expression and association, except via taxation.

You've just desribed an oppresive system. Right wing.

[Provost Harrison]

That describes Stalinism. Pretty unpleasant all things considered. The bureaucracy out of control. We have to learn these lessons the next time the revolution comes

[Whaleboy]

Insead you placed a single one "liberty vs. totality" or whatever.

Its another dimension. You still have left+right as an economic dimension, but you've added liberty+totality as another.

This is what I mean... again you'll see it politics compass. On the one-dimensional left-right, I am on the right, Stalin is on the left, but according to this, I am furthermore libertarian, Stalin would be totalitarian. I could do more, but I'm not so good at drawing cubes.

[MikeH]

I'm fiscally left wing but very socially liberal - people should be able to ****, marry, worship, take anything they want as long as it's consenting.