Rugby - Autumn Beckons!

[finbar]

Their official title is Family First, espousing "family values", but they're essentially funded by Australia's biggest evangelical christian church. One of their Senate candidates, in South Australia, rather gave the game away by publicly declaring (quite seriously) that lesbians should be burned at the stake. They're not that far away from the more extreme evangelical fundamentalists over there.

[ravagon]

Originally posted by Havak
Interesting take on a war of treason. You can read history books on that war from both sides – and the ones by UK historians have the advantage of not trying to Cannonise certain individuals totally regardless of the facts.

Look at history with a critical eye – and don’t just accept what the big dog of today now says.

That misunderstanding thing again I'm afraid.
My post wasn't intended to judge either side in any way whatsoever. I'm sorry if it seemed to do so. I used the phrase 'exterior threat' solely in the geographical sense and the colonies banded together at the time solely because they were fighting a common enemy.

As it happens I do tend to believe they were in the right simply because their demands regarding the whole taxation/representation thing (everything else aside) weren't that unreasonable, but that's by the wayside and has no place in any attempted analysis.

[I would also like to point out that in my EU2 AAR as glorious Mother England (and later Mother British Empire) I did no such unsociable thing as crushing the colonies - I let them have their little revolt risk and lived with the reduced taxation revenues until they gave it up and rejoined the Empire as loyal subjects. Rule Britannia! ]

And without any deep knowledge of US politics I think you are dreaming if you think the US states are ‘together’ on anything much at all domestically. Only the largest of external matters - or internal threats - produce a ‘United States’. That’s what a Federal system is like.

True enough regarding the individual states but my point is that they already have a true union with a centralised federal government.
It was the necessity for this union in their revolution that allowed such a federal government to form - were they still separate states today then I have no doubt that there wouldn't be nearly the same pressure to force them together.
Once you have such a federal government with real power it isn't quite so easy to get rid of - should the urge arise.

See my point above – the war fought ‘to end slavery’ according to revisionist history. Did it end in 1865? The Civil war was all about power and vested interests – as most wars are.

The war ended. The reasons behind it didn't go away anywhere near quite as quickly. They never do. I don't think the US civil war was any different in that respect.
Regarding the secessionist movement though - Military conquest (and a recently demonstrated will and ability to see it through) can often be a pretty good dampener.

The sacrifices the US made for the UK in both world wars is not belittled by me in any way – without them we would either have been defeated or forced to ally with the devil - and Marshall aid saved this country from quite literally starving in the late 40s – but it was a bitter pill for the UK to find itself bankrupt and struggling post WWII whilst US money rebuilt Japan and Germany entirely and laid the foundations for them to be economic powers larger than us. Who won that war – and who lost?

Who was it who said that the only thing worse than winning a war is losing one?
Ultimately though Germany/Japan were in far worse shape than the UK at the end of the war, and what with the new cold war starting and Germany/Japan set to become the new front line it was somewhat understandable ...

But ultimately get this – Scotland should beat the Wallabies this coming Saturday do you think? It’s a rugger thread after all.

I'd like to hear a projected weather forecast before making predictions.

[finbar]

Originally posted by ravagon
I'd like to hear a projected weather forecast before making predictions.

They're playing in Scotland. Any sleet falling at less than 700kph and anything warmer than - 76 C will be a bonus. Oh, and it's Scotland's, um, B team. Their, um, A players have been prevented from playing by their English clubs - Stoke On Trent Amateurs, and the like. So, if everything goes as I expect, the Wallabies should lose 0-3.

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Havak
Only the largest of external matters - or internal threats - produce a ‘United States’. That’s what a Federal system is like.

Allow me to jump in here for a moment...

Yes, the states have a dencent amount of differences, and are governed differently to an extent, but I think your statement is far too black and white. Federal law usually ends up trumping state law when the two conflict.

But having abstained from reading the rest of your conversation or post I may have taken your quote totally out of context.

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by finbar
Their official title is Family First, espousing "family values", but they're essentially funded by Australia's biggest evangelical christian church. One of their Senate candidates, in South Australia, rather gave the game away by publicly declaring (quite seriously) that lesbians should be burned at the stake. They're not that far away from the more extreme evangelical fundamentalists over there.

Well I wouldn't put Bushie in that boat just yet. Also, having had a lot of personal experience with Christian fundies I can tell you that that system of beliefs is far from being "on the rise" over here.

[LDiCesare]

They're playing in Scotland. Any sleet falling at less than 700kph and anything warmer than - 76 C will be a bonus. Oh, and it's Scotland's, um, B team. Their, um, A players have been prevented from playing by their English clubs - Stoke On Trent Amateurs, and the like. So, if everything goes as I expect, the Wallabies should lose 0-3.

Seriously, Scotland still has a national team?

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by Caligastia

Well I wouldn't put Bushie in that boat just yet. Also, having had a lot of personal experience with Christian fundies I can tell you that that system of beliefs is far from being "on the rise" over here.

As far as I have understood, the big US cities seem to be rather immune to this curious mental illness. Many journalists and specialists also pointed at the fact that there would be a neat difference between the city based electorate (rather pro-Kerry) and the rural electorate that would be closer to the values defended by Bush and co.

[finbar]

Originally posted by LDiCesare


Seriously, Scotland still has a national team?

There's a rumor circulating to that effect. Although it should probably be called North Australia - most of the coaching staff and a good handful of the players are refugees from this Arse-End Of The World.

[finbar]

Wallabies 31 -d- Scotland 14

With a 3am kick-off, I had to tape the match and haven't seen it yet. Won't get a chance till tonight. Damn deadlines! Reports seem to indicate a fine Wallaby first half followed, unfortunately predictably, by a slack second half. Ironic, given that only yesterday Eddie was arguing that the Wallabies have a history of only playing 40 minutes of good rugby against weaker oppo. I look forward to watching the tape and being infuriated.

Boks -v- Wales sounds like it was an interesting match.

[Tamerlin]

Stade Toulousain 32 - Stade Français CASG 16

Very good game with a great first half from the Toulousains, the second half was less brilliant though the Stade Toulousain managed to score two more tries that gives them the prized bonus point.

Without any doubt the best game I have seen since the beginning of the season.

[finbar]

I'm very pleased for you! My VCR didn't work! I'll have to wait for a replay of the Scotland match! It's all your fault!

[LDiCesare]

I got to see a few tries of Toulouse. Tamerlin, who's that center who scored a nice try getting all arounf and through the Parisian defense?

[Havak]

The Wallabies were awful in the second half Finbar so I suggest you only watch the first 40.

Excepting that one of the Scotland tries was scored by a lad I toured with when he was a Colt. Very pleased for the lad.

Back in work Tuesday at which point I will respond to everyone else but had to pop by to say

Tigers 28 - Glaws 13

And Spreadbury had to play 48 mins in the second half to let Glaws score the try that gave them fake respectablity.

And lock Jaw had numerous stitches to his forehead after getting a shoeing - the usual good tempered clash between Tigers and the Tractor boys.

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by LDiCesare
I got to see a few tries of Toulouse. Tamerlin, who's that center who scored a nice try getting all arounf and through the Parisian defense?

As far as I remember it must be Florian Fritz...

[ravagon]

Originally posted by finbar
It's all your fault!

It's so nice to see that phrase in use when, just for once, I'm not the recipient.