Muqtada al-Sadr

[The Mad Monk]

Originally posted by GePap


Oddly enough, you think that this news must be reported in the western media for it to reach Iraqis, which is the population amongst which this would have the most effect?

Sadr is finished by a long shot- the root of his support is there. He has to lay low for a few months, but his base is not damaged in the least by this, or by possible looting either. Were do you guys get your world view?

His followers may have looted the Shi'ite version of Medina -- where do you get your world view?

[Ted Striker]

Looks like Al Jazeera and Pacifica radio

[Ramo]

IMO, union decline is a result of a reorganization of labor and outsorcing..

Agreed.

But that begs the question, why aren't unions trying to organize new industries? And why are they so pussified?

Regarding the new service-orientated jobs that are replacing manufacturing jobs, I don't know if people are less interested in being unionized under them. I mean, the SEIU is one of the most radical (and rapidly growing) of the large unions.

His main base in Sadr city loves him but that place has been spared the destruction of Najaf and Fallujah

What does Fallujah have to do with this? Incidentally, of the major Shia figures, the Sunnis admire Sadr the most.

Najafites never liked him anyways since it was the center of the clerical establishment. He loses nothing by antagonizing them further. In the slums of every other Southern city, they love Sadr.

[Ramo]

An interesting article about Sadr's status:

http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0830/p04s01-woiq.html

[Ramo]

His followers may have looted the Shi'ite version of Medina -- where do you get your world view?

Al Jazeera are terrorists. Fox News link please.

Seriously, either the looting has been too minor for it to have any significant effect, the police were mistaken, or it was simply rumor (one'd think that the story would be carried somewhere, anywhere, if there was anything to it - I haven't seen anything from the bloggers either).

The bottom line is, as the Cole suggests, ""Moqtada's central message, of 'American troops out now!' has almost certainly moved from the fringes in May of 2003 to the political center among Iraqis in August 2004."" He had lost some troops, but he has gained far more recruits and even more political allies (vis a vis us).

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Ramo
Regarding the new service-orientated jobs that are replacing manufacturing jobs, I don't know if people are less interested in being unionized under them. I mean, the SEIU is one of the most radical (and rapidly growing) of the large unions.

I used to be a member. They got us a $5 a day raise, and when my boss started giving me trouble for helping with the organizing they couldn't do anything about it.

[Patroklos]

"Moqtada's central message, of 'American troops out now"

Of course Iraqis are not stupid, and while this may strike a heart cord with most (it should with anyone who is occupied, even if they were the forces of heaven), they know this is impossible and not in their best interests.

And Sadr's message has alot more than that. And while some poor are attracted to this one platform issue and may thus "like" Sadr for it, alot don't see eye to eye with him on his islamic law bull.

Being favorable dispositioned is not the same as cutting 20 years off your life by fighting for him.

[Ned]

So long as we do not do something stupid to piss off the other Shi'ites, Sadr cannot win. He does not have the leading Shi'ite ayatollahs on his side and does not speak for Shi'ites as a whole.

[Ned]

BAGHDAD, Iraq (AP) - Rebel Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr called for his followers across Iraq to stop fighting against U.S. and Iraqi forces and said he planned to enter Iraqi politics in the coming days, an al-Sadr aide said Monday.

The announcement came three days after al-Sadr's Mahdi Army militia stopped fighting with U.S. and Iraqi forces in the holy city of Najaf under a peace deal brokered by religious authorities to end three weeks of fighting there.

But fighting continued in other areas of the country, and al-Sadr representatives and Iraqi government officials met Monday to try to negotiate a peace agreement to end fighting in the Baghdad slum of Sadr City.

Al-Sadr "has called for a halting of all military operations in Iraq," Naim Al-Kaabi, an al-Sadr aide in Baghdad, said Monday afternoon.

"This latest initiative shows that we want stability and security in this country by ending all confrontation in all parts of Iraq," said Sheik Raed al-Khadami, al-Sadr's spokesman in Baghdad. "Al-Sadr's office in Najaf will call within the next two days to join the political process."

The plan appeared to meet a key demand of interim Prime Minister Ayad Allawi, who has called for the militia to be disbanded and turned into a political movement. Al-Sadr had previously resisted that demand.

[Ramo]

Ned, source? I can't find a reference to this. I found a contemporaneous NYT article mentioning that the peace talks are currently at an impasse.

Of course Iraqis are not stupid, and while this may strike a heart cord with most (it should with anyone who is occupied, even if they were the forces of heaven), they know this is impossible and not in their best interests.

That's not what he was saying. There are loads of people who don't see the US as acting in their interests, and want them out now. Them's the facts. Regardless of what you might think is best for them.

And Sadr's message has alot more than that.

Duh. That's why he wrote "central message."

Being favorable dispositioned is not the same as cuttign 20 years off your life by fighting for him are not the same.

Having a favorable disposition towards a cause makes it more likely that one would fight for it. In any case, I specifically mentioned what he'd get from less radically Islamist Shia: an alliance against the US. To quote from the article,

Six months ago, Sheikh Jawad al-Khalasi was what most would consider an Iraqi Shiite moderate. Critical of the militant ideas of fellow Shiite cleric Moqtada al-Sadr, Mr. Khalasi preached a more cooperative approach toward the Americans and the interim Iraqi government.
Then, last Thursday, when Iraqi snipers opened fire on him and thousands of demonstrators converging on Najaf, hoping to end the siege there and protect the shrine, Khalasi changed his mind. Now he's a radical, a troubling sign that Mr. Sadr has grown stronger from a three-week-long standoff that the Iraqi government once hoped might reduce Sadr to irrelevance.

[...]

"This is the beginning of the end for the Americans," says Khalasi, speaking from his home in Baghdad's upper-class Shiite district of Kadhimiya. "What will happen now is that all the political parties will unite to kick the Americans out of Iraq. You have seen even the Sunni people starting to support Moqtada. All this will encourage people to be united."

[Ted Striker]

Originally posted by Ramo


What does Fallujah have to do with this?

People look and see what's going on it Fallujah. duh

[Ramo]

Which has absolutely nothing to do with Sadr. As I said, the Sunni Nationalists (i.e. the folks in Fallujah) tend to admire Sadr. Duh.

[lord of the mark]

[QUOTE] Originally posted by Ramo

What does Fallujah have to do with this? Incidentally, of the major Shia figures, the Sunnis admire Sadr the most.

the insurgents in Fallujah and elsewhere may do so, as far as i can see Baghdad Sunnis do not.

Najafites never liked him anyways since it was the center of the clerical establishment. He loses nothing by antagonizing them further. In the slums of every other Southern city, they love Sadr.

I saw something the other day, from a brit source, i think the BBC, that would indicate that Sadrs men are highly disliked in Basra, and that locals are eager for Brits to drive him out.

I see no evidence that he has firm support anywhere outside of Sadr city (which is NOT to minimize his support, since Sadr city has about half the population of Baghdad, apparently)

[Ramo]

Can you substantiate that?

For instance, there was a pro-Sadr march in Basra on the 19th:

http://news.scotsman.com/international.cfm?id=933092004

Yesterday¡¯s attack occurred just before thousands of Sadr¡¯s supporters marched through the streets of Basra to protest against the United States¡¯ assault on Najaf.

Describing the protest, Sqdn Ldr Wilson said: "It was quite low key in fact. We believe there were about 3,000 people there. They demonstrated in a well-ordered manner and they dispersed around about midday, local time."

[Ramo]

Anyways, the latest news is that Sadr's aids are talking about him joining politics, but he doesn't want to disarm. Sounds like a delaying tactic so he could reinforce his militia.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/31/international/middleeast/31iraq.html