NJ Governor resigning right now

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Originally posted by Verto


These guy has had two wives.

It is reported that his inlaws of his first wife knew that McGreevy was gay. The question then is did his second wife know prior to their marriage and if so why did she allow the sham to proceed? Obviously the assumption is that McGreevy was disingenuous or at best unsure of his own sexuality. Regardless his decision to perpetrate a second marriage and lie to someone he supposedly loved says volumes about his character and his trustworthiness.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Originally posted by The Mad Monk
Note that, if he were to resign before September 2, New Jersey would be required by law to have a gubernatorial election this coming election day. The most popular likely candidate at this time is his previous challenger, Republican Bret Schundler.

By waiting until well into November, he is able to designate his successor, until November 2005.

There will be a battle.

Repubs see this as a means to have NJ back in play. Wee there a gubernatorial election the popularity of Schundler might have spill over ramification to help Bush carry NJ.

Expect a huge firefight over this.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Wee there a gubernatorial election the popularity of Schundler might have spill over ramification to help Bush carry NJ.

Doubt it. Schundler, while I like the man, got creamed against McGreevey. An unabashed conservative will not survive a statewide race in moderate NJ.

[Boris Godunov]

What firefight can there be? McGreevey has every right to resign when he sees fit. There's little Republicans can do but ***** and moan. I'm sure they'll be loud, but since the Dems run NJ state politics, don't expect it to go very far. The argument can easily be made that McGreevey's decision is the one that will cause NJ the least amount of turmoil, as it will ensure relative continuity until the next scheduled gubernatorial election.

And Ogie, don't be so quick to judge a situation about which you know little. You might try speaking with gay people who have been married (there are scads of them) so you can see there are a lot of reasons they go that route, the primary one being a denial of one's own identity and suppression of it.

But it's the route advocated by the fundamentalist religionistas, who think gay folks can just flip a switch and endure a heterosexual marriage if they try really, really hard. No matter how many lives it messes up.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov

But it's the route advocated by the fundamentalist religionistas, who think gay folks can just flip a switch and endure a heterosexual marriage if they try really, really hard. No matter how many lives it messes up.

That would assume that McGreevey would be courting that vote which I think unlikely. More likely he was attempting main stream moderate cover.

The point I was making is that it is unlikely McGreevey did not know of his confusion over his sexuality at the point of his second marriage and in point of fact it was a very likely cause for his first divorce (evidenced by the assumption that his inlaws were aware that he was gay). This being the case, to go into a second marriage for presumably political expedience and cover is disingenuous to, at a minimum, his second wife. Whether it makes a hoot of difference to the voters (and it shouldn't) is not the issue. What is more important tho' is that the man has a character flaw that belies his personal courage. (Only under threat of being outed by a lawsuit does he respond for spin control purpose). Put it this way, Barney Frank deserves much more commendation than McGreevey for having the moral courage to be openly gay (even despite Frank's own admittedly scandalled career)

Your point is valid tho' that I have no first hand knowledge of his personal situation, but that hasn't stopped anyone here at 'poly from posting anything now has it?

[MrFun]

What is more perverted?

A gay man who decides to finally be honest with everyone, or a straight man/gay man who marries someone of the opposite gender merely for political reasons?

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Not the right question as they both describe the same person and lack of ethics in their actions. Perverted doesn't apply here.
(Edit - I wouldn't use the word perverted here because the issue in my mind does not revolve around his chocie of sexuality which I think you were trying to imply I find as a perversion. And whether you choose to believe one way or the other I do not. )

His action to become finally honest would be noble if it were done for proper courageous reasons. His motivation is to pre-empt the impending lawsuit and belies his cowardice.


As to your point regarding the straight man who marries someone of the opposite gender for political reasons, I find that repugnant as well. Assuming you feel the same, how can you vote for Kerry?

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by VJ

Politicians must have wife (and very preferably also 2 or 3 kids) in order to keep their image in check. It's simply impossible to get your hands on any serious political positions if you don't have those things. Voters must see you as a decent, responsible guy.

I thought Kerry used to be single (while he was in Congress)...

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe
That would assume that McGreevey would be courting that vote which I think unlikely. More likely he was attempting main stream moderate cover.

I assumed nothing of the kind, because I am inclined, from my own experiences and that of others, to think he was closeted for personal reasons, not political ones. I know many closeted homosexuals, none of whom are in politics.

The point I was making is that it is unlikely McGreevey did not know of his confusion over his sexuality at the point of his second marriage and in point of fact it was a very likely cause for his first divorce (evidenced by the assumption that his inlaws were aware that he was gay).

Being confused over one's sexuality is precisely the problem that leads people to such marriages. You've got the message coming from some groups that being gay is a choice and one can change or suppress being that way. You've got the societal message that being gay is wrong, and most people don't want to be considered to be "wrong." You have familial pressure, as well. McGreevey comes from Catholic family, and we have no idea how they would think about it. When you get to be in your 20s and have lived a lie for so long, often based on thinking like, "it's just a phase, I'll grow out of it," you can see how the situation can spiral out of control.

As for his inlaws, I'm not sure how reliable that claim is, but it again could be a case where they felt he was gay, but McGreevey himself hadn't acknowledged it to himself. I was gay long before I realized and accepted I was gay, if that makes sense.

This being the case, to go into a second marriage for presumably political expedience and cover is disingenuous to, at a minimum, his second wife.

Disingenuous, providing it was an intentional and conscious deceit on his part. Again, if at the time he married her he was still in denial about his sexuality, I'd be hard pressed to blame him for the course of action that he took. I don't like it, but I can see how it happened, and have seen it happen before.

On the other hand, I'm not convinced his wife was unaware of her husband's sexuality, anyway. We've seen in Europe cases where a gay politician's wife was fully in the know and it was basically an understanding they had. McGreevey certainly knew that to be successful in politics takes an image of being a family man, which is hard for gay men to have in this day and age.

What is more important tho' is that the man has a character flaw that belies his personal courage. (Only under threat of being outed by a lawsuit does he respond for spin control purpose).

I think you're downplaying the courage it takes to come out, and moreso to do so publicly like this. It's humiliating, to say the least. Now, were McGreevey truly a moral coward, I think he would have dug in his heels and denied the charges, fighting it tooth and nail. It seems to me you put him in a damned-if-you-do, damned-if-you-don't situation. Republicans claimed Clinton should do the "honorable thing" and fully admit his affair with Lewinsky and resign from the Presidency. McGreevey is doing just that--before the allegations were made public, btw--and now he's still acting dishonorably?

Put it this way, Barney Frank deserves much more commendation than McGreevey for having the moral courage to be openly gay (even despite Frank's own admittedly scandalled career)

I wouldn't disagree, but I don't think the comparison diminishes McGreevey's act. Maybe it's not as signficant, but it is significant nonetheless.

Your point is valid tho' that I have no first hand knowledge of his personal situation, but that hasn't stopped anyone here at 'poly from posting anything now has it?

When it comes to matters of politics, it's natural, but when it comes to matters of sexual orientation, I would hope you'd utilize the resources available here (i.e., gay posters who have been in the closet) before making such assumptions about McGreevey's motivations.

[Dis]

It's still selfish to take a wife to get into politics. He should have chosen another proefession.

Leave the available women to us straight guys dammit!

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe
As to your point regarding the straight man who marries someone of the opposite gender for political reasons, I find that repugnant as well. Assuming you feel the same, how can you vote for Kerry?

Unless you have evidence beyond your own biased speculation to support a claim Kerry did such a thing, this is a rather despicable aspersion.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by The Mad Monk
So...does this make him America's first gay governor, or what?

No. Jim Thompson of Illinois in the 80s was strongly rumoured to be gay.

[Boris Godunov]

It makes him the first openly gay governor, though, which I think was the point.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Boris,

You and I will have to agree to disagree. I fully recognize the situation McGreevey faced with having to out himself was humiliating and likely terrifying. I also think he analyzed his legal and political situation and knew full well he had no other recourse to take the action he did. Left to only one viable course of action, does that imply courage? Face it, his political capital was almost completely spent and left him no other option than to try to claim some form of noble appearance of being courageous enough to come out of the closet.

Since you invoked repubs and Clinton, I assume then you think it was courageous of Nixxon to step down for the greater good of the country, no?

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov


Unless you have evidence beyond your own biased speculation to support a claim Kerry did such a thing, this is a rather despicable aspersion.

You obviously didn't see the smilie now did you?